Hot stampers?

Elizabeth · « **Reply #40 on:** 17 Aug 2011, 08:15 pm »

I have just never bothered to search out 'better' copies of an LP or CD.
I do own a few MFSL, Nautilus, QuiexII, or other special pressing, but only because i found it used at a low price.
I confess I like good quality equipment, but the idea of searching various copies of a recording looking for the best one is just not in my playbook. At all. (this is different than wanting clean, scratch free, not worn LPs)
I have also purchased Brit Beatles,(Parlopone) stuff, more for the romance involved than the 'better' sound.
Beyond that, I guess I just am tin eared, as i do not care about 'better' pressings.

orthobiz · « **Reply #41 on:** 17 Aug 2011, 09:34 pm »

Bottom line: collecting is fun. And not just because the vinyl might sound better. Different copies are cool, albums that are gatefolds subsequently released as single sleeves come to mind. F'rinst: Thick As A Brick is much better with the newspaper! There's a booklet in Tumbleweed Connection? My "Nice Price" version doesn't have it...etc, etc.

And that Hendrix 8 record set for 55 bucks recently on popmarket.com? AWESOME!!!! Gave my noisier American first three albums to my daughter.

But I'd rather wallow through 20 bad copies of 5 dollar records to find a 598 dollar hot stamper!!! (I've never done it, but you get the point)

Paul

Mitsuman · « **Reply #42 on:** 17 Aug 2011, 11:08 pm »

A fellow audio buddy and I have dabbled in the whole "hot stamper" thing a bit. First of all, I wouldn't pay the prices that a certain person charges for his hot stampers, but there is no doubt something to it. I do seek out certain pressings and have done some research into matrix numbers, dead wax stamping and the whole bit. I agree with orthobiz though, the fun is finding them on your own.

Trover · « **Reply #43 on:** 18 Aug 2011, 07:49 pm »

That's right it's fun to collect- for the sound, the label, the cover....whatever. Re: the "certain person" Mitsuman, If you know anything about Better records/Tom Port, you might have been able to observe his progression from a Technics turntable owner sporting "regular" records for the common man to a pompous high end guy with an ultra expensive VPI turntable peddling several hundred dollar hot stampers, as if his pricing has gone proportionate to his equipment costs!

Mitsuman · « **Reply #44 on:** 18 Aug 2011, 09:51 pm »

Quote from: Trover on 18 Aug 2011, 07:49 pm

That's right it's fun to collect- for the sound, the label, the cover....whatever. Re: the "certain person" Mitsuman, If you know anything about Better records/Tom Port, you might have been able to observe his progression from a Technics turntable owner sporting "regular" records for the common man to a pompous high end guy with an ultra expensive VPI turntable peddling several hundred dollar hot stampers, as if his pricing has gone proportionate to his equipment costs!

I was trying to be polite and not name names.

I've read some of his pontification in response to an email my buddy sent him. Pompous would be the word. Not that I don't give him credit for the investment in time that he makes but I'm not going to plunk down the bucks he wants for it.

TONEPUB · « **Reply #45 on:** 18 Aug 2011, 10:01 pm »

Quote from: Trover on 17 Aug 2011, 07:12 pm

Tonepub, you make some good points. I dont condemn 180g the way Port does. What little I know I have learned from collecting for many years, and there is actually some useful information to be had from Ports web site and his approach. Particularly his questioning of both the claimed superiority of MFSL, Classic, Cisco etc. as well as traditional collector values- which usually is: originals, originals, originals! or if not first press, the earlier the better. The revelation first began when I got an original of Johnny winter progressive blues experiment, brought it home and it sounded worse than my reissue. Another time it was Miles Davis My Funny Valentine, a columbia plum 70's reissue and it sounded incredible. Then I came across a 360 and said "oh this is going to be even better", but guess what...it was nowhere near as good as the later one I had. I've had similar experiences with "audiophile" versus "regular". I was able to substantially beat Classic records audiophile 180g of David Crosby 1st solo album by shooting out a handful of "regular" pressings.
I'd agree there are opportunities within the present 180g stuff. I do get some of the Music matter Blue notes. And have a few other 180 G things from the 90's. Even Port rarely comes up with Blue Note Hot stampers. I'd never know how Sonny's crib on 180g is relative to an original, but I have never seen a Sonny's crib, let alone an original, so naturally I'm going to get Sonny's Crib. I've never seen a good condition original of Sonic youth "Sister" so I got the recent ORG version. Basically I only buy new 180g if I know it will be very hard to find otherwise.
The two most obvious things one might consider in the purchase of a "Hot Stamper" (also mentioned by others here) are that Hot Stampers have no real world value, they don't lose 20 percent of their value when you drive 'em off the lot, they lose 99 percent. The other factor is your audio system, musical preferences and room acoustics may not be the same as his. That said, I've done enough experimenting to know his approach is the way to find the best sounding records and would'nt doubt his records sound very good.

This is a really excellent point...

And something to keep in mind when considering paying too much for a record.

Trover · « **Reply #46 on:** 18 Aug 2011, 10:36 pm »

Quote from: Mitsuman on 18 Aug 2011, 09:51 pm

I was trying to be polite and not name names.

I've read some of his pontification in response to an email my buddy sent him. Pompous would be the word. Not that I don't give him credit for the investment in time that he makes but I'm not going to plunk down the bucks he wants for it.

Well good to see I was'nt the only one with that perception. From a practical standpoint it is hard to do what he does. It has to be a record I like a lot that also has to be readily available to even do it. I've only done it on a few titles and with lower amounts than he uses. The biggest bummer is one that sounds great but has other problems.

pansixt · « **Reply #47 on:** 18 Aug 2011, 11:47 pm »

Excerpt from their site about Hot Stampers:

"We've taken it to another level, devoting the kinds of resources that no single audiophile can hope to match. Let's face it, most people have jobs. Playing records all day is our job."

Now I'm going to look at the "Careers" section of the site.

James

TONEPUB · « **Reply #48 on:** 19 Aug 2011, 12:05 am »

I beg to differ. It sounds like quite a few of you have found some very good records.

pansixt · « **Reply #49 on:** 19 Aug 2011, 12:24 am »

I don't think it is a stretch that a sheet of vinyl, like any other material, could have inner flaws throughout the piece that could effect a single recording whereas the next unit may be flawless.

To say nothing that machines have to be maintained carefully to provide a clean and accurate piece during a production run.

And there is always the adage questioning work done on a Monday or a Friday.

James

Trover · « **Reply #50 on:** 19 Aug 2011, 06:38 pm »

Monday, Friday, whatever day produced Hot instead of merely tepid. You know if you think about the quote posted from site, it would in fact be humanly impossible to shoot out the number of "New arrivals" he posts each week if he is actually shooting out 30 or more copies for every title. You would'nt even be able to tell the difference after awhile, hence the help....wonder how that want ad would read.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #51 on:** 19 Aug 2011, 07:49 pm »

Quote from: pansixt on 19 Aug 2011, 12:24 am

I don't think it is a stretch that a sheet of vinyl, like any other material, could have inner flaws throughout the piece that could effect a single recording whereas the next unit may be flawless.
James

LPs are not made from 'sheets' of vinyl. They are made from gobs of hot vinyl, squeezed out like a toothpaste from a tube.
Several LP making videos are available on uTube.
Also, most Lps.. (especially in the 70's) were made from at least partially recycled vinyl.. which usually INCLUDED the label... (and I doubt that vinyl was spotlessly clean either)

pansixt · « **Reply #52 on:** 19 Aug 2011, 10:32 pm »

Thank you for the correction Elizabeth. I had read years ago (in the 70's) that records were stamped. I never looked into the process, but I should have. And now I shall.
I just assumed it was in sheet form.

And that is interesting about the recycled vinyl.

Thanks,

James

Trover · « **Reply #53 on:** 17 Jan 2012, 08:40 pm »

Resurecting this somewhat old thread to say: I finally decided to get hot stamper (one of the more reasonably priced ones). One thing I've noticed about many internet threads on the topic is that few if any of the people posting actually own a "hot stamper". Sorry but I just have to know for myself, so don't dis me too much!

Trover · « **Reply #54 on:** 23 Jan 2012, 04:42 pm »

I got a chance to play the records from better records (ddccblowout.com). They sound really good. Two beat the pressings I had, and the other I had none to compare but it sounded exceptional. I have done limited multiple copy "shootouts" myself or altenatively just keep going back to the store until I get a copy I am satisfied with. For me and my somewhat limited options, good sounding records with decent playing surface are not getting easier to find. For titles I have never seen clean or am getting tired of waiting to find a good sounding clean copy, Port is a viable option. I could maybe spend hundreds on current audiophile Lp's (many of which are 35 to 50 bucks a pop nowadays) and not get a good sounding one. As with anything else in audio, I can only go by my own personal experience. Even with Knowing full well the history and opinions of the operations proprieter, I decided I could'nt really know anything about a "hot stamper" without actually hearing one.

Miney · « **Reply #55 on:** 23 Jan 2012, 05:02 pm »

Thanks for the update... seems like a viable option to long-term hunting and replacing. And what matters most is that you enjoy the heck out of it.

So if you don't mind further inquiry... is it a matter of sounding like you just pulled it from the press, as in quiet / black background, no pops or clicks, nothing sounds muffled or "recorded"... or is there more??? e.g., does the recording sound more alive, exceptionally engaging / like you're in the studio imaging, separation, 3-D dynamics, etc.? Do they live up to Mr. Port's eloquent descriptions?

Trover · « **Reply #56 on:** 23 Jan 2012, 07:04 pm »

Miney, Re: Surface noise, the records play like good condition used Lp's rather than a premium quality "audiophile" pressing. Re: sound quality, he didnt really go into hybperbole in the descriptions of the ones I got. The descriptions were pretty accurate though. No his records are not night and day revelations. He is making some subtle yet immistakable distinctions. Tonally his records are balanced from low bottom on up. They have good dynamics, and are pretty good dimensionally. They are also free of a slight grain or distortion I have heard on some Lp's, particularly on vocals. Also I read through my posts earlier in the thread, and regarding my post number 39, I did get the 50 dollar 180g "Sonny's Crib", IMO the 90's Bluenote conniseur series cd I have sounds better. I got the Sonic youth I mention too- and this I had no comparison but an old casette of the original vinyl. I was satisfied with the ORG Sonic Youth "Sister", but not the Blue Note "Sonny's Crib". So I spent a little under a hundred bucks and got one decent record. I have my reasons for getting the HS records and am satisfied with them, at the same time I am neither condeming or recommending anybody to buy records from there.

Miney · « **Reply #57 on:** 23 Jan 2012, 08:09 pm »

Trover... appreciate the response. I've bought some bargain stuff from Better Records, and so get the weekly email from them and have always wondered what those White Hot Stampers (WHS) were all about given the glowing details on some.

For example he's got a WHS of Neil Young's Harvest . the description states, "SUPERB SOUND and reasonably quiet surfaces on BOTH SIDES of this mindblowingly good White Hot Stamper copy of Harvest! From the first moments of Out On The Weekend we were FLOORED by the insane amounts of presence and immediacy on this record. Drop the needle on any track to hear some of the best Neil Young sound you’ll ever experience in your life. If you’re thinking about dropping major dough on just one killer Demo Disc for your collection, I humbly suggest that this STUNNING copy of Harvest might be a solid choice."

I doubt I'd ever drop $649.99 on a single LP, but man... that writeup makes me ponder, what if?

Trover · « **Reply #58 on:** 23 Jan 2012, 08:30 pm »

Miney, I got 3 HS records for 400. As I say in my previous post I spent nearly a hundred for one satisfying audiophile record, from that perspective the HS records I got don't seem like such a bad value. I could'nt comment on that expensive white hot one you mention. I've read about every "Hot Stamper" forum thread on the net, and not a single person posting to any of them owned or heard a "White Hot", a few people owned just merely hot, you see there's different degrees of hotness lol! and there's half hots (side A or side B). The regular HS sound very good, that's all I can relate of my personal experience.

Trover · « **Reply #59 on:** 24 Jan 2012, 08:35 pm »

Quote from: Elizabeth on 17 Aug 2011, 08:15 pm

I have just never bothered to search out 'better' copies of an LP or CD.
I do own a few MFSL, Nautilus, QuiexII, or other special pressing, but only because i found it used at a low price.
I confess I like good quality equipment, but the idea of searching various copies of a recording looking for the best one is just not in my playbook. At all. (this is different than wanting clean, scratch free, not worn LPs)
I have also purchased Brit Beatles,(Parlopone) stuff, more for the romance involved than the 'better' sound.
Beyond that, I guess I just am tin eared, as i do not care about 'better' pressings.

To me the sound quality of the pressing, proper set up, and favorable room acoustics are more than 50 percent of the equation, having a greater overall bearing than the equipment itself.