Chasing our tails?

jimdgoulding · « **on:** 9 Sep 2010, 02:21 pm »

I was hangin with a home boy the other nite and he stated that "accuracy" is his goal for his system. I thought about this and concluded that I simply do not relate. His system sounds accurate to me, alright, but about as dry across the board as his statement. The colorations or deviation from neutrality in my system/room to draw an analogy make for like more of an Angelina Jolie than a Twiggy. There is just more flesh, passion and excitement for me, regardless. And sometimes love. He made me think of what my goal is. Well, I suppose it's feeling, foremost. I must say that there was a solo piano recording with such touch that came thru. So, I'm generalizing here. But, I don't think I'm rationalizing. I haven't bought an active component in years unless you include tubes and that's been by choice. I imagine we never lose curiosity, however. And that's cool. Shouldn't want to lose that. But chasing our tails, that's different. My point? What are you pursuing and why? Where do you think you are? And is this a dumb topic?

decal · « **Reply #1 on:** 9 Sep 2010, 03:59 pm »

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What are you pursuing and why?

A redhead that lives down the street.If you saw her the "why" would be obvious.

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Where do you think you are?

In regards to the redhead,nowhere!!

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And is this a dumb topic?

Since you asked,yes,but it's probably no dumber than my answers!!

Tyson · « **Reply #2 on:** 9 Sep 2010, 04:03 pm »

Audio is both art and engineering. The goal of the engineering is to make the sound as accurate as possible. The goal of the art is to make the sound as enjoyable as possible.

PDR · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 Sep 2010, 04:53 pm »

Over the last few years I have been trying to assemble as good a system as I could for
the money I have to spend. It took a while, but I think I cant get too much better than
what I have now.....for my price point.
I listen to my sytem and am totally satisfied.
Does that mean I am done?....for a while I thought so.
Now I am starting to look down different avenues...mainly full range horns.
Do I think they will sound better than my main system?......probably not,
but that remains to be seen....so if I'm happy why I am looking at other projects?
I think for people like me its not the absolute end result, but the path it takes us down
trying to find it. I enjoy listening to various systems, I enjoy having different systems...
if it was only about finding one perfect combo..I guess I wouldnt have 2 others that are not
as good. But I still enjoy them, I wont get rid of them, even though I listen to my main system
90% of the time.
I think thats what defines us as audiophiles our need for a good system.
But if we keep experimenting even after we have found "our" nirvana....then we must be pursuing it just for the fun of it.....well thats me anyway

Tyson · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 Sep 2010, 05:26 pm »

All components (especially speakers) have some compromises, so they are generally optimized in only a few areas, and have trade-offs in other areas. Living with components for a while is the only way to know what you do, or do not, like. What I like about DIY is that you can have greater latitude to experiment with different types of sound.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #5 on:** 9 Sep 2010, 06:47 pm »

Hmmm. I think for me the path (it takes us down- how about on) is the music itself. We are so concerned about the vehicle we're travelin in instead of the destination. I remember as a 17 year old standing with my back right up on my speakers soes the energy of the music would permeate my body, and it did! Made me late for work. Coltrane did it, boss! He overwhelmed my will! My system when I was 17 weren't accurate in anybody's book. And yet the emotional connection to the music was really there.

What caused me to open this topic was my friend's comment about accuracy. WTF does that really have to do with kinetic art? Some of us need glasses to appreciate a painting. But, you don't need glasses to appreciate music. The industry would have us believe that we do. Tubes used to be romantic sounding. Now, manufacturer's are eschewing that in favor of accurate. This word accurate is buggin me. Sounds like a recipe for obsession. I desire for instruments to sound like real instruments and settings to sound like real settings, and they do, but it's the end game, the motherjumpin emotional connection that rewards me the most. If a guy came to my house wanting to measure the frequency response in my room, I would invite him to put his anal ass in my chair and listen to some music.

If I had a bigger room, I'd probably have bigger speakers and what it would take to drive them. I mean that's sensible, it seems to me. My friend's system was accurate sounding, but the end game left me flat for the most part. Him, too, I suspect. Else he wouldn't be thinkin the way he is. Unless it's become a habit. I mean what is guiding my friend and where did he get it?

ZLS · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 Sep 2010, 06:49 pm »

It is not the destination, but the journey towards that destination.

It took me awhile (decades actually) to realize this.

If someone offered the "perfect sounding" (not measuring)" equipment on the condition that I could never change anything in my system again, I would say no thank you.

Besides, I enjoy driving myself crazy; after all, I do such a good job at it!

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #7 on:** 9 Sep 2010, 07:01 pm »

Yeah, but Z, you ARE connecting with your music. You're not stuck like Chuck in a cycle of re-incarnation unless you wanna be, or are compelled to be somehow. Excuse the metaphor. And now that you are there, rejoice, dear heart*, smell the roses. I'd never give up choice, either. Like to reserve being able to change my mind. It's what is driving us, and how much of it is really us, that I'm trying to touch on.

*Brother Dave Gardner

BobM · « **Reply #8 on:** 9 Sep 2010, 07:11 pm »

Everyone needs a hobby. I like music but don't have the time to play an instrument anymore. Listening to music is easier these days. Audio becomes the means to an end, in my case. Music makes me happy and relaxes me (usually).

It doesn't have to be costly to listen to music, but over time, accumulating and building components, it has unfortunately added up to a tidy amount. Probably no worse than any other hobby one could be in for 10-20 years though, and take seriously. I've learned a lot about a number of things that seem important to those of us in the hobby, but are certainly inconsequential to others and of little concern in the grand scheme of the larger things in my life. But the hobby does help me put those larger things into perspective and savor a little down-time for myself (escapism, yeah, perhaps).

Feng Shui for the head.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #9 on:** 9 Sep 2010, 07:17 pm »

You're a reasonable man, Robert, and Tyson, too. Think we have that in common.

Steve · « **Reply #10 on:** 10 Sep 2010, 12:52 am »

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What caused me to open this topic was my friend's comment about accuracy....
Now, manufacturer's are eschewing that in favor of accurate. This word accurate is buggin me. Sounds like a recipe for obsession. I desire for instruments to sound like real instruments and settings to sound like real settings, and they do, but it's the end game, the motherjumpin emotional connection that rewards me the most.

Hi Jim,

I think you nicely summed up the problem and gave the answer. If a component/system is "accurate" but instruments/voices don't sound natural, then it is not accurate by definition. Of course we are using a quality recording if we are discussing playback system.

Cheers.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 Sep 2010, 02:37 am »

Thanks, Steve, I think I got a little carried away about my friend constantly turning over gear and turned it more into a general topic than it warranted. I just wasn't gettin the love I'm used to listening to his 'accurate' components (his words). Kinda lacks an incandesence and dynamic life that turns me on. Very clean, but kinda dim/grey. The end hasn't justified the means to me. Didn't want to say that to him so I said it to you guys. He must just take joy from something other than what I do

, but I suspect he will continue to search. C'est la vie.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #12 on:** 10 Sep 2010, 04:22 am »

Different strokes for different folks Jim.....

Some people like 'accurate'.....to hear every last drop....others may like it warm and fuzzy.

Pick your poison with what you enjoy....that's the best path.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #13 on:** 10 Sep 2010, 04:39 am »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 10 Sep 2010, 04:22 am

Different strokes for different folks Jim.....

Some people like 'accurate'.....to hear every last drop....others may like it warm and fuzzy.

Pick your poison with what you enjoy....that's the best path.

Thanks, bro, no argument from me. I ain't about fuzzy, tho. My friend thinks he's getting more 'detail'. I'm a big picture person. Cat gets focused on aspects, he's in for a long ride. Wanna amend what I said about feeling being a goal. That would be communication. Feeling is the response I seek. Appreciate you, Chris.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #14 on:** 10 Sep 2010, 05:03 am »

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Feeling is the response I seek.

I'm all for that.....music entering your ears....running through your blood stream....feel the energy......it's electric.

An example.....(forget the suit)

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #15 on:** 10 Sep 2010, 05:11 am »

Yeah, really. Cat ougtta be at least nekkid! You're a trip, man, you come up with stuff like that all the time.

mjosef · « **Reply #16 on:** 10 Sep 2010, 05:33 am »

I'm chasin' a sound I heard back in the early 70's...and round and round we go...(insert circling smiley here)

Elizabeth · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 Sep 2010, 06:09 am »

My most recent choices have to do the job for a LONG time. I just retired, got some bonus money and: thinking what do i 'do' the most (listen to music) I would spend it on some stuff I hope i can enjoy for at least twenty years!!! (I need a new car, but the stereo got the tip)
I had alway wanted Magnepan and bought new 3.6's. The amp for maggies is often Bryston, so I bought a Bryston 4B-SST2 after careful auditioning of the pairing at a local dealer (also a nice thing: local dealer). The Bryston BP26 seemed good during my audition, and I bought that instead of the Audio Research Ref 3 used, I had thought about. (because of used AR was more than Bry, and needed tubes every two years $400 start, and the Bry warranty)
So then filling in with other stuff, however I did NOT upgrade the digital, after returning DAC. (thinking about PC audio, high def coming)
SO: "MY" thing is clarity, and high frequency smoothness. And i play at about 65dB 'c' weighted to 80dB max. So I want a good sound at low volumes. (and I do not need powerful bass at all)
So the stuff I bought has done what I want. I got what I want. Great clarity, great high frequencies. smooth hf. The sound in my rig can be near 'thin' It is a line between clarity and thiness I try not to allow to go bad. The cables and power conditioners etc have a lot to do with this area.
Warm sound without clarity leaves me cold. I cannot stand bad HF at all. So digital is a hard monster to tame (I did it by using a VAC Standard (used) just as a tube buffer for all the digital. it smooths the 'crispies' from digital just enough to be able to enjoy the music fully.
MY Home theater is Canton 300/360 4" AL driver sets, speakers which also are totally in the clarity camp.
So at this point I have what i want. (I better have it! cuz no more cash for anything)
The future in hi rez, and PC audio may get some money thrown at it... well, maybe when it is better established. (I do think that is the future. downloads or Blu Ray hi rez audio)

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #18 on:** 10 Sep 2010, 06:59 am »

Damnit to hell, I just spent a half hour or better trying to visit with YOU about volume control and it bloody disappeared! Later, lady, if I can recover.

JLM · « **Reply #19 on:** 10 Sep 2010, 12:02 pm »

Audio= hobby (equipment shopping or building) + love of music (with fidelity, at home).

The equipment side speaks to the male hunter/gatherer nature.

The music side speaks to the more female emotive/nest building nature.

Either can be done well into sickness. Either can spend too much. The equipment guys can confuse themselves absessing over the ninth degree of whatever. Music folks can collect more music than they'll ever listen to or can recall/find again.

After 40 years in audio I've found that chasing detail/accuracy can be pointless and very un-satisfying. Like big boomy bass and zingy highs for audio newbies, when combined with the modern hyper-real miking/recording practices, excessive detail wears on me. What I've found is that resolution (from really good/focused imaging) adds a more natural sort of accuracy that I can live with.

So I chase coherency, imaging, tone, and full frequency replay.

I've also found that good enough is good enough. The ultimate audio experience is the live concert, which has tons of compromises. So a good home system (which must factor in the room - or go with headphones) is easily overall as good as the live performance. As lonewolfny42 says, "whatever floats your boat".