[drphoto]

I didn't listen to my rig much during the month of August. I had to study for and take the pharmacy school exam. I'd occasionally toss in one of my concert DVDs to chill after a long session of chemistry or algebra review.

With the exam over, the other night, I spun up the vinyl rig again. I started w/ Genesis "Genesis", as one of the concert vids I had watched was their last big tour, "When in Rome".

Man, I couldn't believe how good it sounded. The tone and timbre were so spot on and everything else was there too, detail, PRAT, impact. The only thing my digital rig does better, is it can play louder. If I try to turn it up too loud with the analog source, the subs go wonky. I'm pretty sure it's due to tube noise from my phono pre rather than mechanical feedback. The analog rig is so, well.....musical.

I still like my digital rig and my concert DVD's. But I love the sound from my analog setup. I had some serious buyers remorse as money is somewhat tight these days, and I could have lived w/ what I had. But I did get my money's worth, in that it sounds better than what I expected for what I paid. I currently not using my CD transport or Squeezebox.

Setup is a Rega P3-24 w/ a Denon DL-160 into a Mapletree Ultra4 SE. Rega sits on Mapleshade brass cones >2" maple plank>Isoblocks. As I've said before, Pierre from Mapleshade tends to claim everything they sell is the last word in audio, but these products really do work. I did need the shim from Rega to adjust the VTA for the Denon cart.

While mine is not exactly 'entry level', you can get great sound from a relatively inexpensive setup.

Thanks again for all those who gave me so much help w/ the return to vinyl.

BTW: I'm running a modded version of the Longhorn mod. I have a 1/2" or so of carbon fiber rod stuck to the front of the cart. w/ blutak w/ a couple of small loops of solder glued to the ends of the rod. Haven't done and A/B test....too lazy...

But like I said, love what I'm getting. No other fancy mods.

[TheChairGuy]

You're loving your vinyl front end because you put together a fine (and very simple) system there, Doc

Once I found out about maple cutting boards....nothing else has ever gone under my various decks.  Mapleshade is all about hyperbole, but maple cutting blocks under a turntable is simply one fine way to go

The rest of your system is simple - generally, the best way to enjoy vinyl.  The new Rega turntables, with the newest regulated motor design, are just plain good.  The Denon DL-160 cartridge is probably the best <USD$200 cartridge in existence for most folks today.

btw, I've never found the Longhorn mod to re-create the level of benefit it does for Grado's.  I strain to hear any benefit with other cartridges with it....which means it's dubious whether it's providing any benefit.  But, with Grado's, wow , it's wonderfully obvious it's providing benefits.

The Rega arm is fine....and Rega has eschewed the current audiophool fascination with RCA jacks at the back of their tables and use the more traditional one length of cable running right to the phono stage.  RCA terminations and feeble cartridge voltages are a lousy mix....best to eliminate them when possible.   

Then, in a fit of beauty, you have a great full-featured, voltage regulated preamp in that Mapletree unit.

Your system has well-chosen pieces and has a simple, straight path from stylus to phono stage.  May you be happy with it for years as it is a good one

It's no wonder your happy with it - it rocks

John

[95Dyna]

Congrats drphoto not only for the analog rig but on becoming a pharmacist--wonderful accomplishments are both.  I am also getting back to vinyl having stored my 500 or so records away for the last 25 years.  What was I thinking putting them away to start with???

No less than Harry Weisfeld agrees with chairguy on the maple cutting board.  My VPI Classic manual states simply, "just put it in/on a rack that doesn't sway in the wind and use a 2" thick maple cutting board as a shelf to maximize results."

[drphoto]

Thanks Dyna, but I'm not in school yet. The one knock on my record is I left a PhD program 27 years ago before I wrote my dissertation. So they might think I'm a little flaky.

[Toni Rambold]

btw, I've never found the Longhorn mod to re-create the level of benefit it does for Grado's.  I strain to hear any benefit with other cartridges with it....which means it's dubious whether it's providing any benefit.  But, with Grado's, wow , it's wonderfully obvious it's providing benefits.

Due to the lack of suspension damping of the Grado's the bar stabilizes the motion of the stylus in the groove, just like the pole(for balance) of a wire-walker - it's simply physics.


Regards Toni

[95Dyna]

Thanks Dyna, but I'm not in school yet. The one knock on my record is I left a PhD program 27 years ago before I wrote my dissertation. So they might think I'm a little flaky.

Damn the torpedos...................!!

[Stu Pitt]

drphoto -

You've got a great set up.   The Regas just play music; no added BS.   I know money's tight, but the next thing you should spend on is the TTPSU.  It's not a subtle difference.   It's an across the board improvement.  All things in the system staying the same, the P3-24 with TTPSU sounds better than a P5 without one. 

[drphoto]

Stu, I'll keep it in mind, but no more audio toys for now, unless I can sell my Tempest pre.

[drphoto]

BTW: I pulled off my fake Longhorn last night, and didn't notice any sonic difference. Sure looks better. I think the Denon is going to be sans moustache now.

[drphoto]

Yeah John, it does rock. I take back everything I said about lack of slam, now that I've got everything dialed in. It won't play as loud as my digital rig as mentioned above, but at similar volumes it has plenty of slam. I've never heard Stewart Copeland's drums sound as tight and punchy as on my vinyl copies of "Ghost in the Machine", etc.

My memories of my own Thorens, a TD-165 w/ a Shure V15 something, was it sounded compressed, muddy and lifeless in comparison. Of course, I just brought home from the dealer w/ the cart installed and knew nothing about setup or isolation. So it may not be a fair comparison. I just know this little thing knows how to boogie.

Again, at the risk of sounding like a Rega rep., they've got something figured out here. The whole low mass design seems very counter intuitive. It sure did to me. However, it seems like it works. But I have nothing to compare it to, short of some old memories.

Hey, I'm not trying to sell anything to anyone. I'm just reporting my experiences. I'd love to hear something like a VPI Scout, that takes the opposite approach in terms of mass. They're also really pretty and also pretty expensive.

And because I know John and Wayne know their stuff, the Technics decks maybe the best low cost solution for many. I just didn't care for the "DJ" style table. That might seem silly, but I'm not sure a lot of things about this hobby can be justified on a purely rational level.
 

[jimdgoulding]

And a purely emotional one.  Don't you dare start listening to classical music.  The ambience recovery is unmatched. 

[TheChairGuy]

Yeah John, it does rock. I take back everything I said about lack of slam, now that I've got everything dialed in. It won't play as loud as my digital rig as mentioned above, but at similar volumes it has plenty of slam. I've never heard Stewart Copeland's drums sound as tight and punchy as on my vinyl copies of "Ghost in the Machine", etc.

You got it dialed in right, then

In reality, vinyl will never play quite as loud as digital. Vinyl is a front end best enjoyed in smaller environments I've found...where you don't quite notice it's curtailed dynamic range (40-50db max I think on the best records versus 96db of Redbook/CD digital and 144db for DVD-A and I think Blu-ray).

In small to medium rooms, where my system has always been relegated, the difference in dynamic range between the formats isn't too noticeable...it slams plenty in my rooms (AC/DC Highway to Hell, versions on vinyl and CD, have come to prove that ). 

But, if you truly have a gigantic area to fill, the vinyl system will sound a bit punier and you'll come to appreciate what digital does - loud, room-filling, plug in and play set-up.

On the other hand, I've yet to find a more natural, honest sounding recreation of music on any digital system yet encountered of any price. In other words, it sounds like the live events I have been to....not some digital approximation of it.

A Longhorned Prestige Grado with nude shibata is the one cartridge that stands out convincingly to me as the most natural of all....but, it's an oft-frustrating endeavor to dial it in right for many even seasoned vinylphools. The Denon DL-160 gets you 95% of the way there for naturalness without any great efforts...it's just one sensational cartridge for the masses.

Vinyl is best enjoyed with a very simple, straight direct transmission line. Feeble cartridge voltages shouldn't hop over scores of rca jacks and solder points - the signal gets stripped of it's vitality that way.  So, you built a simple system that sounds great partly because it's simple in so many ways.

Congrats! John   

[BobRex]

John, I cannot disagree strongly enough.  I've heard vinyl played in auditoriums and gymnasiums and it was glorious.  I don't know where you came up with the idea that vinyl is at best a "parlor" system, but I'd question your equipment and its ability to isolate.   

BTW, using direct to disk you can push vinyl's dynamic range to over 60dB, and analog is capable of going at least 10dB below the noise floor, for a total potential dynamic range of over 70dB.  AC/DC? You're lucky if there is 20dB of range.  Slam has nothing to do with dynamic range.  Let's be real.  Name 5 CDs that have anything approaching 90dB of dynamic range.  And Blu-Ray/DVD-A at 144?  It may have a SN of 144 (doubtful), but that means going from zero noise (which never occurs in nature) to 3 feet from the exhaust of a jet engine.  Again, no recorded material comes anywhere close to that in reality.  Given a speaker system with 100dB of sensitivity (and how many of those exist?) you would need 20 thousand watts to reproduce that range, assuming 1) such an amplifier existed and could be used in a residential setting and 2) a domestic speaker existed that could even withstand the onslaught.  So, no, these claims are pure marketing with no basis in reality.

[jimdgoulding]

Can someone direct me and others to info about the Longhorn mod and how to do it?  Is it beneficial to the wood body G's?  Thanks.

[drphoto]

BobRex, in my system the upper volume level for analog playback is limited by tube noise I get from my pre. The Denon cart I'm using is a fairly high output MC, but still requires a fair amount of gain. I've gone through a bunch of tubes, but it seems like all the SC7's (an oddball tube to be sure) exhibit a bit of low end rumbly sort of noise. When the gain gets to high, the subs go all wonky. If I turn them down everything gets out of balance. My OB subs are functioning more as woofers than true subs.

That being said, I'm much more satisfied w/ my sound now at lower volumes than digital at higher. It seemed like the system used to not 'come alive' until it was pushed fairly hard. Now the music just blooms even at modest volumes. I know my ears appreciate this.

I was listening last night and I was frankly just blown away about how good it sounds now. I feel like I've finally crossed over the line into something that can truly be called hi end audio, albeit the lower end of that spectrum. I really need better speakers, but that just ain't gonna happen for a long time.

[ArthurDent]

Can someone direct me and others to info about the Longhorn mod and how to do it?  Is it beneficial to the wood body G's?  Thanks.

Check with Wayner, and search the AVA circle for some info. There's probably more elsewhere, but Wayner will be able to point you in the right direction.   

[TheChairGuy]

Can someone direct me and others to info about the Longhorn mod and how to do it?  Is it beneficial to the wood body G's?  Thanks.

Jim,

It should be beneficial to the Woodies, too.

In fact, my Longhorned Grado Gold (with shibata G1+ stylus) was preferred to a Woodie Master one kindly AC member lent me for a month last year.

The Longhorn, both the application of the moustache and the 1000cst silicone goo inside, makes for a much happier Grado

Downloads of Audio Basics (1982 is the best one for Longhorn discussions...maybe 1983, as well) are kindly made available (gratis) by Frank van Alstine on his site, avahifi.com

Here's something from the AC archives, as well: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=24666.0

John

[Letitroll98]

That being said, I'm much more satisfied w/ my sound now at lower volumes than digital at higher. It seemed like the system used to not 'come alive' until it was pushed fairly hard. Now the music just blooms even at modest volumes. I know my ears appreciate this.

I was listening last night and I was frankly just blown away about how good it sounds now. I feel like I've finally crossed over the line into something that can truly be called hi end audio, albeit the lower end of that spectrum. I really need better speakers, but that just ain't gonna happen for a long time.

Actually, as soon as you can get this from your system, you are no longer in the "lower end of the spectrum".  You've got the essence of what the whole thing is about and moving up the ladder just improves on the qualities you've already brought out in your system.  There a heretical hifi guy with an Italian name and a blog site that says you judge the quality of your system by how softly it can play and still retain the magic.  Actually makes sense if you try it.

As far as your next step in turntables, when you're ready for it, you needn't spend a fortune.  I was amazed at the improvement in sound going from a Rega and a Project table to a used VPI HW-19 Jr., the lowliest of the series, albeit with several upgrades on mine.  I think I paid something like $450 plus shipping.  (I did make sure I bought from someone experienced in shipping tables)  Everything got better, but as noted, just extensions of what was there with the lesser tables.  Anyway, enjoy what you have for now, it should keep you from at least analog upgradeitis for some time. 

[drphoto]

I'd love to hear a VPI. I like the classic look too.

However don't discount this new version of the P3. I don't think Rega is now the ugly girl who puts out until you can move up. Sorry for the rather crude analogy.

This slender little beauty really knowns how to rock. It may not be the last work in resolution,  but everything else is there. I know I'm starting to sound like the Rega rep, but these decks are not stop gaps. They are very, very good. At least IMHO.

[BobRex]

Keep in mind, the upper end Regas are truly fine tables.  You get to keep the Rega "flavor" while improving the whole picture.

As to the tube rush you mentioned, well that's either a gain mismatch or a noisy circuit/tube.  My system is virtually all tube (Herron, Joule Electra, 2a3 SE amps) and you have go pump up the gain to hear any noise.  At normal listening levels, it's dead quiet.