Thinking about building a dedicated pc music source.

HsvHeelFan · « **on:** 4 Sep 2010, 05:24 am »

I'm beginning to think about building a dedicated, stand alone, music pc to feed Lossless audio files to my 2 channel system.

I have around 600 CDs.

I want the unit to have an LCD and some kind of program to manage my audio files and playlists. 600 CDs is a substantial amount of tracks to keep up with. I'll also store the audio files on that machine, so I don't have to stream anything from anywhere else in the house. I'll use a 500 GB or a 1TB drive for file storage.

I plan on placing a wireless adapter on this music server so it can access my home network, but only when I need it to.

When using it as a music server, I'd prefer to not have the internet up at all.

So, I'm looking for suggestions for a low-power, quiet, medium footprint pc (I may use Windows or I may use Linux, I use both at work) that feed the music to my pre-amp. I'm open to using a dedicated sound card (such as one of the M-Audio cards) or using a USB DAC such as the HRT Streamer II+. I'm leaning toward the HRT Streamer II+. If I could afford the Bryston DAC, I'd use one of those.

I'm currently using a Denon DCM-390 as my CD player and I'm a little concerned about it's S/N spec versus the HRT Streamer II+

I'm sure someone out there has done a dedicated music pc rather than streaming from somewhere else. Let me know what you think.

I thought about posting this on the "Dead silent dedicated Linux music server for USB DAC's." thread, but since I want more than a streaming music server, I decided not to.

What I'm most concerned about is building this PC Music Source, transferring the first 10 CDs or so. Playing them back and thinking "Wow, the Denon sounded a whole lot better".

HsvHeelFan

pjchappy · « **Reply #1 on:** 4 Sep 2010, 05:42 am »

What OS would you use (do you have a disk from an unused system, or do you need a new one)? Would you like this to also play video?

If wireless music playback is all you plan on using it for (with occasional internet use) and you plan on building it from scratch, you could build a system very cheap, even using fairly premium components. . . $500-$700 and even less. . . so right in your budget.

My (recently busted. . .soon to be replaced) laptop based system, which played lossless audio files via USB, had been a major factor in making my very modest system sound the best it ever has. I'm looking forward to my new HTPC. I would say my speakers are currently the biggest limiting factor in my system.

Paul

HsvHeelFan · « **Reply #2 on:** 4 Sep 2010, 06:09 am »

I'm Linux capable. I use RedHat and Suse linux at work occasionally. Most of my work happens on Windows machines. As far as a disk goes, I'd buy a dedicated hard disk to store my audio files on. I may have 2. One for the OS and one strictly for the audio files.

I'm an Orchestra musician and listen to Classical, Jazz and Rock. I'm currently using a Denon DCM-390 (SACD - Redbook) CD player feeding a Parasound PH850 pre-amp with Bryston power and KEF towers with a Velodyne subwoofer.

As long as I have a decent software package to manage my audio files, I should be fine. At the office, I have some of my collection ripped to a hard drive and it randomly plays around 4000 tracks. There, I use Windows Media Player, but I have all of those files in one giant playlist. Scrolling through the list can be a bit slow, if I'm looking for a particular track.

For a home system, I wouldn't want that. I expect that I'd choose an "album" like I do now and drag it to the playlist for the listening session. Usually, I listen to 3 - 5 albums in a row.

Up until recently, I never considered using a computer as a music source.

HsvHeelFan

pjchappy · « **Reply #3 on:** 4 Sep 2010, 06:19 am »

I use J. River Media Center as my playback/organizational software. It is great. I never heard of it until I read someone highly recommending here, on AC, about 18-months ago. Think it costs around $50, and it's well worth it. I use FLAC format (lossless).

If that doesn't sound good, you can always go iTunes and use its lossless coded. It is free. There are other options out there, too.

If I can get to it this weekend, I'll 'build' some systems for you (via NewEgg.com) and PM them to you, if you're interested. . .keeping your $600 budget in mind, of course. Just let me know.

Some questions. . .do you plan on any other upgrades? Only concerned about 2-channel playback? I ask out of thoughts on variations on getting from PC-->Preamp-->Amp.

Paul

HsvHeelFan · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Sep 2010, 06:45 am »

I have a home theater system and I use it for DVD's and HDTV, but it's not serious audio.

I'm only concerned with 2 channel playback that I use for serious audio listening.

What's driving me to do this is to get my 600+ cds off of the wall where they currently are and to eventually replace the Denon DCM-390 CD changer. The Denon can be finicky about reading some of my discs. Occasionally, I've had to rip new CD-Rs off of some of my discs to get them to play in the Denon.

If I made any upgrades to my audio system, I'd get a Bryston Pre-amp and consider some PMC speakers. Long term, I'd want the Bryston DAC as well.

HsvHeelFan

pjchappy · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Sep 2010, 06:50 am »

I missed this one earlier -- Where do you want the LCD? Could you run a cable from the HTPC to have the LCD near you (a fairly small LCD)? Is the LCD part of the $600 budget?

Paul

mcgsxr · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Sep 2010, 10:44 am »

It sounds like you are getting some excellent advice so far.

I built my dedicated music PC up from various Craigslist finds - total cost $125 for a pc, and 17 inch lcd. I run windows XP Pro, and it is not connected to the Net at all.

It is a small form factor Dell I bought off lease. I use the onboard 40G HD as the OS drive, and an outboard 1TB drive for the music.

mumbles · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Sep 2010, 06:06 pm »

Hi Mcgsxr,
Looks like I going the same route you have gone computer playback wise
What software are you using for ripping and play back?

Vincent Kars · « **Reply #8 on:** 5 Sep 2010, 09:18 am »

PC: as it is in the listening room, noise is important.
Nothing as irritating as listening to a string quartet accompanied by a cpu cooler and a clattering hard disk.
You might look for a fan less design.

I’m a J River fan boy but I have to admit that the online database is small and not really suite for ripping classical. They improved on it by adding FreeDB.
An option might be to use WMP (in secure mode) for the ripping or use dbPoweramp, probably the best ripper there is.
Both use AMG, excellent database for ripping classical
In case of WMP you are almost forced to use WMAL, dbPoweramp rips to FLAC
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/WMP/Ripping.htm
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/ripping.html

DAC
Look for one supporting asynchronous USB. Probably the best USB solution
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/USB_DAC.htm

When selecting a media player or a DAC, check if WASAPI is supported.
This is the best audio driver in Win
http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/KB/WASAPI.htm

mcgsxr · « **Reply #9 on:** 5 Sep 2010, 12:15 pm »

I ripped (past tense, it is all done now) using EAC to FLAC.

I use a Bolder Cable modded Logitech SB3 as my front end (in combination with the PC) wired with Ethernet.

The PC is not silent, nor is the external HD.

Partially to mask that, and partially because I just like the idea, I put the PC and HD inside this old creature...

The system is at the other end of the basement, so the noisy gear is kept around 20 feet away inside that cabinet.

HsvHeelFan · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 03:22 am »

The pc music server doesn't need to be silent. I would prefer that it was quiet, but it could have a fan or 2. If it's as quiet as this laptop I'm typing on, that would be fine. I don't listen to much quiet music and what I listen, I don't listen to quietly.

As far as a video monitor goes, I have 3 unused LCD's laying around. I think one is a 17 and the other 2 are 19 inches. I've got a spot for the LCD, so that won't be a problem. I plan on using motherboard based video, since all I need to run is the OS user interface.

I think I need at least a dual core, low power processor.

I'll have all 600+ CD's ripped to this PC. I may rip them somewhere and use an external 1TB hard drive. I haven't given that a lot of thought, yet.

I already have a home wireless network, so I'll use wireless to connect this pc music server to the rest of my network, when I want to do that.

I'd rather not have a standard desktop type tower. A small, compact tower or some type of desktop box would be preferred.

I'm leaning towards the HRT Streamer II+ to connect via USB to feed the pre-amp.

I'm also considering the M-AUDIO Audiophile 2496 PCI Interface 4-In-4-Out Professional Audio Card with MIDI as an alternative to the USB DAC.

Back to scrounging around on NewEgg.

I could be a month away from doing this on 6 months away from doing this. I'd like to build one of these, but it's not super-high priority at the moment.

HsvHeelFan

HsvHeelFan · « **Reply #11 on:** 5 Oct 2010, 04:31 am »

Well, I'm planning on using;

Cooler Master Elite 360 case

SeaSonic 350W ATX power supply

Gigabyte GA-M68MT-D3 AM3 Nvidia GeForce 7025/Force 630a motherboard

AMD Athlon II X2 245 2.9 Ghz cpu

Crucial DDR3 1333 Dual Channel Ram kit

Lite-on 24x Dvd - CD burner (non-Blue ray)

Western Digital 1TB SATA 3 hard drive

ASUS Xonar Essence STX Sound card

with the misc stuff, it comes to 573 dollars.

I considered the M-Audio Audiophile 2496 Sound Card and several other Asus sound cards.

I didn't want to have to buy a cheaper sound card, not like it and have to turn around and buy the ASUS.

I really don't want to spend more than 600-700 dollars. I spent most of the money on the sound card. I thought about going with one of the HRT Streamers, but there are several really good reviews on the ASUS sound card and it has excellent SNR.

Any thoughts on the above system?

HsvHeelFan

Delta Wave · « **Reply #12 on:** 5 Oct 2010, 07:07 am »

I use a HT Omega Claro Plus+ sound card, it sounds amazing. It even looks better on paper and is cheaper than the Asus. It does 24/192 effortlessly. The only problem I had with it was I had to move it away from my video card because of a lack of sheilding.

davidrs · « **Reply #13 on:** 5 Oct 2010, 01:08 pm »

Both the ASUS and M-Audio cards are very good for what you are looking to do and well worth the spend.

I do not use their onboard dacs since I only use digital out to an external DAC, so cannot compare their stereo 2ch out.

Good to know that the pc noise is not an issue for you - makes things much much much easier to implement. PC and other peripheral noise is a big deal for me and eliminating it is a real pain and can be expensive.

Your system looks good.

DON'T forget good cables (per your sonic preferances) - they will help you extract much more from your system than basic cabling. Do an A/B and you will be amazed.

- David.

HsvHeelFan · « **Reply #14 on:** 5 Oct 2010, 06:03 pm »

I didn't want to go the external DAC route right now. Most of the external DAC's in the < $300 range were a little marginal on Signal to Noise ratio and I don't have a good reference as to how they would sound compared to my Denon CD player (DCM-390).

My current Denon CD player is rated at 116 db SNR. I'm not comfortable with a sound card that's in the 100db SNR neighborhood. I might not be able to hear the difference, since there is a lot more to audio than SNR, but I didn't want to buy a cheaper card and turn around and have to purchase a better card.

My Denon is picky about some of my CDs and it can tend to skip on what appears to be an otherwise perfect CD. So, I end up having to re-rip them to get them to play.

The biggest factor is getting being able to store the 600+ CDs, provided I can get equivalent or even better sound.

HsvHeelFan

davidrs · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Oct 2010, 06:00 pm »

"The pc music server doesn't need to be silent. I would prefer that it was quiet, but it could have a fan or 2. If it's as quiet as this laptop I'm typing on, that would be fine. I don't listen to much quiet music and what I listen, I don't listen to quietly."

Hi HvsHeelFan,

Just so I understand (and hope this does not come across as too direct), you are ok with general pc & peripheral equipment noise but are worried about internal SNR measurements on the soundcards and possibly external DACs?

Trying to understand this, since those "external noise makers" are going to make a heck of a racket, far far more audible than what you will be able to pick up from a sound card in an ideal listening environment.

However, since you like listening to your music loud, I think what you mean is that you are looking for a solution that delivers the least distortion and best resolution, at higher SPLs. Is that correct?

If that is the case, I would accept your cds for what they are - whether played direct or ripped and played through a pc based system.

What I would then recommend would be listening to the new system, you build and setup, with your ripped cd files playing and then compare them to some high resolution downloads or music feeds (e.g. Pandora).

If you can get the same music/performance in a high resolution format as you have in ripped cd format, then do an a/b. What I am trying to say, is that the file is going to be the rate limiting issue, not the soundcard, all other things being equal.

I have resigned myself to accepting cd based music reproduction for what it is. I've had a very high end cdp paired with excellent components and this was a wonderful and highly enjoyable setup. But when high resolution downloads and high resolution online subscriptions beat that format, in that system, for a third of the system price ($20,000 vs $7,000 [used dollars]) - acceptance of that particular reality was a no brainer, for me.

- David.

JEaton · « **Reply #16 on:** 7 Oct 2010, 07:35 pm »

Quote from: HsvHeelFan on 5 Oct 2010, 04:31 am

Well, I'm planning on using;

Cooler Master Elite 360 case

SeaSonic 350W ATX power supply

Gigabyte GA-M68MT-D3 AM3 Nvidia GeForce 7025/Force 630a motherboard

AMD Athlon II X2 245 2.9 Ghz cpu

...

Any thoughts on the above system?

If you're building a dedicated system that will reside in your listening room I would highly recommend an Intel Atom CPU and motherboard. Even the dual core D510 (and now D525) systems can be completely fanless.

http://www.mini-box.com/D510MO-mini-ITX-Intel

PicoPSU power supplies for mini-ITX motherboards are also fanless.

http://www.mini-box.com/picoPSU-80?sc=8&category=981

And there are well ventilated, fanless cases.

http://www.mini-box.com/M350S-enclosure-with-picoPSU-80-and-60W-adapter

2.5" drives are much cooler and quieter than 3.5" drives, albeit at a small price premium. They're available in up to 1 TB capacities. (The 1 TB capacity drives are a non-standard 12.5mm thick, so be careful where you use one - they can't be used in most laptops.)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822149171

The dual-core Atom would be more than powerful enough for just about any audio PC application. If building a system around the above components I would probably set it up to boot from a USB pen drive.

Edit: You wouldn't be able to use a PCI card in that mini-ITX case, but there are other mini-ITX cases that will accept cards.

gkinberg · « **Reply #17 on:** 10 Jun 2011, 05:32 am »

I am interested as to where this thread led. I want to build a system much like what HsvHeelFan described but I don't think that I have the know how that HsvHeelFan has. Therefore, I'm looking to see how this effort paned out. Maybe I can learn from the experience.

Thanks, Garth

wilbert-vanbakel · « **Reply #18 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 02:23 am »

Quote from: HsvHeelFan on 5 Oct 2010, 04:31 am

Well, I'm planning on using;

For a dedicated music server your specs seem to me overkill and overpriced. I got an Atom based small form factor system including 5400 rpm 1 TB disk and 2 GB RAM for $180.
I use Musicpd on a Debian system, Musicpd supports direct addressing of your USB DAC with bypassing any driver or kernel mixer.

I sense that you worry that you might be disappointed with the sound even before you converted your entire CD collection. I suggest that you find a way to test a system with USB-DAC connected to your audio system.
It doesn't really matter if you use a laptop or anything, just borrow a HRT DAC and listen, even from a linux live CD/USB.

firedog · « **Reply #19 on:** 13 Jun 2011, 01:18 pm »

For a PC which is music server only, you don't need much computing power. Even something like a FitPC http://www.fit-pc.com/web/ (tiny, fanless, all on one board PC) will work fine.