Piccolo - part substitution for discontinued Digikey stuff

Aljaheejus · « **on:** 1 Sep 2010, 02:59 am »

I have found the following items not available at Digi-Key and don't have the expertise to be confident in a substitution. Can someone please help me with these?
P3104-ND C10 C11 C16 C17 C1
DN2570-ND L1
MT7145-ND power (I hope to tap my Ripper as in my other post of this date.)

Got this close with L1 options:

Thanks in advance.

poty · « **Reply #1 on:** 1 Sep 2010, 11:21 am »

For example, http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=BC2054-ND for first, http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=DN42080-ND for second, http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=T1025-P5P-ND for third.
But you can try to obtain more quality caps for example. There in the forum are a lot of tryings of this kind.

Aljaheejus · « **Reply #2 on:** 1 Sep 2010, 04:06 pm »

Thanks a bunch! I have updated my BOM and will take your advice to try and use power from my Ripper ( so I won't order the wall wart power transformer.)

Upgrades to capacitors I am aware of from studying the threads in this forum, but it sounds like they would increase the parts price significantly from what I can tell. ("Black gates," for example, I have read add approximately $200!)

Can anyone recommend an upgrade for sonics that would represent the most improvement for the least additional parts cost? Which specific Capacitors would yield the most improvement?

As I have read J. Hagerman recommend, I will probably listen first then decide on upgrades.

BobM · « **Reply #3 on:** 1 Sep 2010, 04:22 pm »

Here's a thread where I upgraded specific resistors:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=76688.0

and another where I upgraded the caps and improved the power supply:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=79234.0

Good luck,
Bob

Aljaheejus · « **Reply #4 on:** 2 Sep 2010, 04:11 pm »

Thanks. I have reviewed each of those threads, and with a little poking around on the web, found that (13) $10 ea black gate 100uF 25v caps could replace the (13) $0.29 caps. I plan on listening to the $3.77 worth of specified caps first, before deciding to spend $130 more to reduce background noise. I was hoping there might be a better cap at, say, $0.60 or even $1.30 each. Any suggestions in this price range?

The PRP resistors may be affordable at about $0.40 each for 1/4 watt.

Thanks again.

analog97 · « **Reply #5 on:** 2 Sep 2010, 05:43 pm »

Quote

I plan on listening to the $3.77 worth of specified caps first, before deciding to spend $130 more to reduce background noise.

Aljaheejus,

I have built 3 Piccolos, all stock parts. They are all stone-cold quiet. I'll bet you never upgrade the caps.

poty · « **Reply #6 on:** 2 Sep 2010, 07:55 pm »

You need not upgrade the whole 13 electrolytic caps - just those in the direct signal path (C12-C15).
You should also think about most critical circuits for another parts to upgrade. I think - C1 - is the first candidate for that. C10, C11, C16, C17, R1 - the second.
It is possible, certainly, to suggest capacitors from many cost ranges, but there is no single recipe for all.

Aljaheejus · « **Reply #7 on:** 2 Sep 2010, 08:23 pm »

Thank you both, analog9* and p*ty! Clear, direct hierarchy of recommendations a non electrical engineer can put to use. Looking forward to a new homemade, world-class audio box from hagtech!

Swarkybubble · « **Reply #8 on:** 2 Sep 2010, 10:09 pm »

I based my upgrades on tubesforever´s recs ( thanks Jim) and I´m very happy with the results. I have no idea how mine compares with a standard Piccolo but as I didn´t need the flexibility in the load impedance values, I only fitted 470R values for my linn Troika cartridge but I can say that the difference the Schinkoh resistors made over the PRPs was staggering.

hagtech · « **Reply #9 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 02:23 am »

0.01uF = #P3913?
0.22uF = #P3929
33pF = #478-6007
1uF = #445-2857
1nF = #495-1132
100pF = #PS1101J
Headphone Jack = #CP1-3553NG

jh

Aljaheejus · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 04:59 am »

Jim,
I used the parts suggestions from links provided by p*ty in the first reply for my digikey order.

Quote

For example, http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=BC2054-ND for first, http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=DN42080-ND for second, http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=T1025-P5P-ND for third.

Anything wrong with those from your position? I did not order the wall transformer, since I was planning on tapping the power from my Ripper. (Refer to my other thread "Piccolo power from Ripper?")

I do not understand your parts paste. It looks like it might belong to another device/request.

Thanks,
David

Aljaheejus · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 Sep 2010, 05:21 am »

Quote from: hagtech on 6 Sep 2010, 02:23 am

0.01uF = #P3913?
0.22uF = #P3929
33pF = #478-6007
1uF = #445-2857
1nF = #495-1132
100pF = #PS1101J
Headphone Jack = #CP1-3553NG

jh

Can someone explain the relevance to Piccolo of the above parts post from Jim Hagerman?

hagtech · « **Reply #12 on:** 11 Sep 2010, 07:35 am »

Sorry, that was for RIPPER.

I cut and paste the wrong thing. Try this...

0.1uF = #P3872
100uH = #DN7700
Power Supply = (Mouser #412-112014)

jh

Aljaheejus · « **Reply #13 on:** 11 Sep 2010, 04:37 pm »

Jim, Thanks for the correction. Please advise whether I should order your recommendations, versus use the parts below that I have already ordered. I really need your guidance, as I do not have the knowledge!

1) You recommend a 100uH = #DN7700 for L1 whereas I ordered a
DN42080-ND - COIL 120.UH MOLDED SHIELDED as recommended by p*ty. Comparing the specs beyond the uH value differences I find the following (which mean nothing to me):
the 42080 has
DC Resistance (DCR) 3.600 Ohm Max
Q @ Freq 55 @ 790kHz
Self Resonant Freq 9.7MHz

the 7700 has
DC Resistance (DCR)   8.000 Ohm Max
Q @ Freq   50 @ 2.5MHz
Self Resonant Freq   13MHz

Which is best for sonics?

2) You recommend a 100mA transformer for Power Supply (Mouser #412-112014) whereas I ordered a T1025-P5P-ND - XFRMR WALL MT 12V 1.0A E-STAR. Please advise if there is a downside to the latter (other than the $16 price was twice your recommendation's

)

3) You recommend 0.1uF = #P3872 - CAP POLYPROPYLENE .1UF 50V 1%: This part is OBSOLETE per digikey and panasonic.
So, for C10 C11 C16 C17 I have BC2054-ND - CAP FILM MKP .1UF 63VDC 2% as recommended by p*ty. These okay?

4) In lieu of the above caps for C1L C1R I have what I hope is an upgrade to VISHAY-RODERSTEIN MKP-1837 Film Capacitor 0.1uf 100VAC / 160VDC 1% from PcX. These okay? Possibly better than the 63VDC ones above for sonics?

Looking forward to your advice and, of course, to some soldering and listening.
Thanks, David

hagtech · « **Reply #14 on:** 11 Sep 2010, 09:47 pm »

1) It's almost an irrelevant part. The 120uH is fine.

2) The wall wart needs to be a simple rectified transformer, not a dc-dc switching type.

3) Ok.

4) Sure, as long as they fit. Not too much room in those spaces.

jh

Aljaheejus · « **Reply #15 on:** 12 Sep 2010, 04:35 am »

Quote from: hagtech on 11 Sep 2010, 09:47 pm

....
2) The wall wart needs to be a simple rectified transformer, not a dc-dc switching type.
....

Thanks for clearing up these parts (my nos 1,3 & 4.)
Though I, don't understand the above comment, and nowhere in the product descriptions are the terms you use to describe, I've got to assume that I need the Mouser #412-112014 item.

Looks like that will be the last kernel of info. I need.

Thanks again to all.

poty · « **Reply #16 on:** 14 Sep 2010, 07:32 pm »

If you ordered the power supply already there is no need to order another one. It's just my opinion though.
JH uses in his Piccolo switched DC-DC conversion already, so it is no harm to use switched PS. But to be absolutle pure and sure you can try to compare power supplys of different types.

Aljaheejus · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 Sep 2010, 02:12 am »

Thanks for letting me know your opinion. I am not an electrical engineer, I am an architect. Can you explain, or point me to a good online resource to at least _begin_ to understand this issue? "Rectified" vs. "switched DC-DC"? What part of the Piccolo does the switched DC-DC?

I'm going to run with batteries first.

poty · « **Reply #18 on:** 15 Sep 2010, 08:21 am »

Quote from: Aljaheejus on 15 Sep 2010, 02:12 am

"Rectified" vs. "switched DC-DC"?

The right variant:
Transformer+rectifier vs. Switched.
Simple understanding of switched can be found an http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switched-mode_power_supply, different designs - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_supply. Its difficult for me to find English resources for many things, because my native language is Russian.

You can find examples of transformer+rectifier type of power supply in all JH models (Bugle power supply, Ripper...). Many people think the transformer type of power supply is more clean of RMI than switched, but it is more or less true for choke based filters only, which is not common even in the JH designs. More common capacitors filters produces very high pulse current after rectifyer, which is difficult to eliminate just with help of common filters.

Quote from: Aljaheejus on 15 Sep 2010, 02:12 am

What part of the Piccolo does the switched DC-DC?

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=77742.0
Scroll to Reply #9 on: 20 Feb 2010, 07:16 AM

Quote from: Aljaheejus on 15 Sep 2010, 02:12 am

I'm going to run with batteries first.

Good choise.

For JH designs you have to stick to experiment side of understanding things, because JH doesn't comment on his schemes.

Aljaheejus · « **Reply #19 on:** 16 Sep 2010, 03:58 am »

Thanks for the links and information on the DC-DC mod! Now just waiting for time to build...
Best regards.