Sensation Quirks

CSI · « **Reply #40 on:** 28 Aug 2010, 04:12 am »

Quote from: vfreeman13 on 28 Aug 2010, 12:32 am

Hi guys,

I am concerned regarding the hissing with the tube buffer. Not to be a hard ass but when you spend $1K plus you expect things to be 'in order'. I have a sensation on order with the buffer currently that has been delivered yet and am wondering what kind of db were talking about at 1 meter. Does anyone have a SPL to measure?

I will do some measurements for you tomorrow and send you a PM. I'll measure the steady state noise (no POT being turned) and also the noise the POT makes when rotated. My guess is the first may be unmeasurable (at least with my Radio Shack meter). I'll do the measurements at the standard 1 meter. This will only tell you what my system does in my room (I'll give you the system details) but at least you will have a benchmark.

vfreeman13 · « **Reply #41 on:** 28 Aug 2010, 06:28 am »

Thank you Sir. I appreciate that a lot.

tabrink · « **Reply #42 on:** 29 Aug 2010, 05:13 am »

OK
Technical observation!
The Joint Army Navy NOS 5710 may be a touch and I am nitpicking here too bright on some files..
Absolutely stunning Sensation and I am picking my preferred tubes to play with different tracts!
Obscene.. absurd really!
Where have we come from to get to here!

OzarkTom · « **Reply #43 on:** 29 Aug 2010, 01:46 pm »

Quote from: tabrink on 29 Aug 2010, 05:13 am

OK
Technical observation!
The Joint Army Navy NOS 5710 may be a touch and I am nitpicking here too bright on some files..
Absolutely stunning Sensation and I am picking my preferred tubes to play with different tracts!
Obscene.. absurd really!
Where have we come from to get to here!

Try one of the Sylvania gold brand 5751 if you can find one. The smoothest and most detailed of all I have had. Like you said, absurd!

Where can you find the 5710 tube? I have looked all over the net and cannot find one.

brother love · « **Reply #44 on:** 4 Sep 2010, 07:44 pm »

I got my full monty Virtue Audio system today: Sensation M-451 w/ sonicap upgrades & Dodd tube buffer AND Piano M-1 w/ aluminum remote & Nirvana interconnects.

First let me say this is some serious eye candy (I posted a few pics in gorgeous gear thread, no truer title for a thread was ever created...).

Got a puny 5 hrs. of run time thus far, so I'll refrain from comments until break-in period is completed.

Re: volume control "rustling leaves" sound... mine has it, but it is very modest IMO. I can't recall if any one posted SPL readings, but I checked w/ a Rat Shack digiital SPL meter. Meter only registers down to 50 dB & indicates "LO" below that.

1 meter from speaker registers "LO" with Sensation M-451 volume adjusted. 6" from speaker goes from "LO" to 52 dB when adjusting volume up to 12 0'clock. Pretty miniscule #'s, but it can be heard.

What is more troublesome, is an annoying "hum" when the Piano is stacked on top of the Sensation & both units are "On" (occurs w/ Dodd batteries hooked-up or 30v/ 80w ps). It doesn't register on the SPL 6" away either, but it is clearly heard from my listening position 7' away & it's constant. If I move the the Piano 6" over to the left (away from Sensation tube side) the hum is reduced greatly.

When I switch the M-451 to solid state & bypass the tube buffer, the hum is gone. So I'm disappointed w/ this discovery, as the tube buffer is a must for me & I made a pedestal to stack the units & love the "stacked" look. I will experiment some more later (try different inputs, move equipment around, etc.).

OzarkTom · « **Reply #45 on:** 4 Sep 2010, 08:18 pm »

Quote from: brother love on 4 Sep 2010, 07:44 pm

When I switch the M-451 to solid state & bypass the tube buffer, the hum is gone. So I'm disappointed w/ this discovery, as the tube buffer is a must for me & I made a pedestal to stack the units & love the "stacked" look. I will experiment some more later (try different inputs, move equipment around, etc.).

Keep the tube buffer far away from all other electrical circuits. I remedied ny hum by moving the Piano far away from the Sensation.

j gale · « **Reply #46 on:** 4 Sep 2010, 11:14 pm »

Hi, Finding my M901 bright compared to my virtue 1. It has Dodd buffer and battery and sonicap bypass with auricaps. With about 60 hr. on it I was hoping it will settle, but not so far. I'm wondering if tube rolling is the answer or should I be looking at different caps? My speakers are not bright. Virtue 1 even new didn't seem bright. Thanks for any advice. Jim

Robb_G · « **Reply #47 on:** 5 Sep 2010, 12:07 am »

Hi Jim,

I have found my speakers (Monitor Audio RS6) to be somewhat bright, although they are much better with my Sensation M901 than they were with my previous amp (Cambridge Audio 740A).

I had the Sensation initially without the tube buffer, and I have now added the buffer. In both cases I was still getting some brightness (depending on the source material). I am now trying some alternate tubes, and I do think it makes a difference.

I posted this in a different thread, but the tube I am trying now seems to work well to take the edge off. It is:

12AU7 Raytheon made - black plates, organ stock
http://tctubes.com/Raytheon-12AU7-Raytheon-black-plate-organ-stock.aspx

It is also completely quiet. I am hearing no 'rustling' when changing volume like I did with the delivered JJ.

The site where I found some tubes is:

http://tctubes.com/

They seem very helpful. I sent an inquiry, and they responded very quickly. You should send them a message and see what they recommend. They also shipped very quickly, although it appears they are on vacation for a few days.

Robb

shawnbaden · « **Reply #48 on:** 5 Sep 2010, 09:57 pm »

I have a Sensation M451 with the default power supply and no upgrades hooked up to a pair of KEF 104/2s. I also hear the rustling sound while adjusting the volume but it's not distracting in the least. It's dead quiet otherwise.

virtue · « **Reply #49 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 01:06 am »

I posted an updated user manual here:

http://www.wihifi.com/virtuemanual/Sensation_Owners_Manual.pdf

Yesterday, an Austrian customer cancelled his order prior to shipment because he didn't feel that he could deal with the rustling sound when changing the volume. He lives far away and was concerned about shipping the unit back to us. I was delighted to cancel his order, return his unit to stock prior to shipping, and issue a full refund.

Seth

Sparky14 · « **Reply #50 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 03:49 am »

Quote from: virtue on 6 Sep 2010, 01:06 am

I posted an updated user manual here:

http://www.wihifi.com/virtuemanual/Sensation_Owners_Manual.pdf

Yesterday, an Austrian customer cancelled his order prior to shipment because he didn't feel that he could deal with the rustling sound when changing the volume. He lives far away and was concerned about shipping the unit back to us. I was delighted to cancel his order, return his unit to stock prior to shipping, and issue a full refund.

Seth

Wow! I sure am glad that I didn't use my subs speaker level inputs after reading that. Actually, I was going to do just that tomorrow, as that is how my current system works.

I tested my new M451 today use the L/R full range preouts to my two subs. Question, with the 80Hz high pass jumper implemented, does the sub out pass full range? Any difference in feeding the L/R preouts to the subs versus using the Sub Out with a splitter?

Oh, no volume control noise here.

virtue · « **Reply #51 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 06:00 am »

Even with 80 hz selected, the pre-outs pass full-range, yes! Must add that to the manual!

Also, not all sub-amps will kill a Tripath amp if using the high-level inputs... only some will

brother love · « **Reply #52 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 12:15 pm »

Quote from: virtue on 6 Sep 2010, 01:06 am

Yesterday, an Austrian customer cancelled his order prior to shipment because he didn't feel that he could deal with the rustling sound when changing the volume. He lives far away and was concerned about shipping the unit back to us. I was delighted to cancel his order, return his unit to stock prior to shipping, and issue a full refund.

Seth

I got a PM from that prospective customer & tried to ease his mind re: Sensation quirks. But as Seth stated in the beginning of this thread, if perfection is expected then other options may be best. Despite all items noted (incl. my own posted prior), there is nothing that significant for me to not keep the Sensation w/ tube buffer & Piano combo. I have other electronics/ speakers/ plasma tv/ etc. that also have "quirks". It comes w/ the territory to some extent...

Like the One.2 I have owned several months, the marvelous sound of the Sensation & Piano trumps any/ all drawbacks by a country mile !

virtue · « **Reply #53 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 06:08 pm »

Thanks for the endorsement, Brother Love!

I'm loving my Sensation, quirks and all! It is what it is.

virtue · « **Reply #54 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 06:23 pm »

On another note, I had a few questions about buffer hum. There are "parts" in Gary's secret saucy black box which are susceptible to transformer intereference. If you put buffered Sensation directly on top of Piano, it will hum audibly with no music playing. If you put it to the right of Piano, it will go away. Try lifting Sensation up above Piano and you can hear the hum die down. At around 6 inches it is gone.

I asked Gary to look into this a few weeks ago. The potting compound itself helps. Wrapping the black box in shielding tape did not help much. Distance helps a lot more.

Robb_G · « **Reply #55 on:** 13 Sep 2010, 05:45 pm »

Quote from: CSI on 25 Aug 2010, 01:29 am

Then a couple of days later I tried Iso-Cups. Big difference! Tighter bass, smoother top end. I took them right out again to be sure I wasn't just hearing things. I wasn't. The Iso-Cups are a permanent tweek for my Sensation. As always, your mileage may vary.

CSI,

How many Iso-Cups are you using under your Sensation? Can you get by with three, or do you need to use four?

Thanks,
Robb

CSI · « **Reply #56 on:** 13 Sep 2010, 06:21 pm »

I am using three because that is what I have available. Two near the back feet and one centered in front. Four might be even better but I don't think I will buy another one just to see.

Sparky14 · « **Reply #57 on:** 13 Sep 2010, 06:36 pm »

I was listening to my new M451 this weekend, and encountered a few quirks while listening to Sgt. Pepper...

1. The Sensation apparently adds instruments to the music. Sorry, but I've listened to Sgt. P hundreds of times, and the Sensation was adding stuff that wasn't there before.

2. The Sensation does not recreate bass accurately. I could distinctly hear different bass notes. I've heard this music through several amps before, and never heard the individual notes so clearly, so the Sensation must be doing something wrong.

3. The Sensation does not take advantage of my dual subwoofer setup. I found that two subs was overkill, as just one was more than sufficient.

4. Olivia Netwon-John's "Physical" is still immensely annoying, even when played on the Sensation.

So, in summary, my new Sensation has made me very disappointed.......that I didn't have one sooner.

wsturner · « **Reply #58 on:** 13 Sep 2010, 06:48 pm »

sparky,

I have had similar experiences with my M451. Heard sounds that made me think something was wrong with my DAC, or transport, or something. Then I realize that it was actually some electronic detail sound in the music that I had never heard before.

Listen to Fever Ray, or some other Q-Sound disk, and you will "see" what I am talking about. The Virtue amps continue to amaze me!

Scott

CSI · « **Reply #59 on:** 13 Sep 2010, 08:47 pm »

Well, since we are letting cats out of the bag, I have been reluctant to talk about this but my Sensation has created something that cannot possibly be on the original CD's. It outdoes James Cameron by reproducing music in 3 dimensions. My old amp gave good sound stage but with all the musicians standing in a line shoulder to shoulder left to right just like they do in real life. The Sensation makes it sound like the drummer is in back and off to one side, the guitarists (and there seem to be more of them than ever) are spread out near the front and the other musicians are all over the place. This can't be right. Maybe I'll go to a live concert someday and see how this is really done.