Vista Audio i34 Mods

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raindance

Vista Audio i34 Mods
« on: 22 Aug 2010, 11:49 pm »
Anyone out there interested in doing some mods to this amp? I have made some changes to mine that make it even better.

raindance

Re: Vista Audio i34 Mods
« Reply #1 on: 27 Aug 2010, 01:22 am »
Nobody interested? These are real mods, not snake oil...

bunky

Re: Vista Audio i34 Mods
« Reply #2 on: 28 Aug 2010, 12:02 am »
 what do your modifications consist of ?

Zero

Re: Vista Audio i34 Mods
« Reply #3 on: 28 Aug 2010, 12:12 am »
I gotta say, the thought has crossed my mind. Part of me wants to see/hear just how far the little i34 can go. Meanwhile, the other side of me is saying:  "No, don't do it man - just be happy with with ya got"!  Basically, its the whole angel / devil on the shoulder bit.  :lol:

So with all of that said, what have ya done Raindance?

raindance

Re: Vista Audio i34 Mods
« Reply #4 on: 28 Aug 2010, 01:00 pm »
I have just started... What I did was replace the volume pot with an Alps blue velvet - very easy mod and it gets the channel tracking at low volume sorted out (and in my amp got rid of a pop sound every time I turned the pot past 10 o'clock).

While I was in there I noticed an op amp (NE5532) so I emailed Boris about it and it is used as an input buffer and first gain stage. I don't like this series of op-amp, so changed it to an OPA2604 that I had lying around. It really made a large improvement to vocals and piano sounds which I felt had just a bit too much sizzle/grain before. While in there I realigned the two small tube sockets as they were misaligned height-wise and offended my somewhat anal nature...

I still feel the amp adds something grainy to sibilant sounds, so will do some further analysis. My gut feel is that the op amp supply voltage is too low, as it is fed off the EL34 heater supply, but I need to get my scope and signal generator hooked up and do some analysis there.

Obviously, you would not want to do this if you are concerned about a warranty!

My next changes will be to add a stepped attenuator balance control (very subtle, 1dB steps, up to 3dB each way) to adjust image centering depending on recording engineer preferences. Personally I can't enjoy music if the center part of the image is way off to one side, and to my ears 2dB is way off.

Then I am going to look at coupling caps. Part of the op amp change, depending what I find, might be to get the first input stage DC coupled and eliminate at least one coupling cap. Change out the others to Dayton audio grade caps.

Have any of you tried different tube combinations in the amp? Any feedback? I tried 12AU7's in place of ECC832 and found they made it sound a bit woolly (obviously the 12AX7 portion of the ECC832 doesn't have enough bias for one of the triodes in the 12AU7). So far I'd stick with the 832's. I am curious about power tubes, though.

I have attached a picture of the underside of the PCB so you can see which wires to remove to get the PCB out for any mods. Mounting screws (nuts) are easy to remove once you use pliers to remove the RTV. I've highlighted in purple the wires that have to be removed to lift the PCB up to get to the other side and also the op amp location.






Zero

Re: Vista Audio i34 Mods
« Reply #5 on: 28 Aug 2010, 11:52 pm »
Raindance,

Cool stuff!  :thumb:   Thanks for detailing your mods.

I have to admit that I've never encountered any issues with the i34 in terms of channel tracking or unusual popping noises. So far, the only operational complaint I have to submit pertains to the 60Hz transformer buzz. Even then, I am not sure if I can blame the i34, as every amp I've had that uses a Toroidal transformer does the same thing.

I'm curious; what version of the i34 you have. As you may already know, Boris makes two versions of the i34. One is built for high gain, the other is built for low gain. I've had both and find myself likening to the low gain version. If you are running the original i34 (which has higher gain), that could partially explain why you're running into a bit of unnatural grain in the top end. I'd also be curious to know what speakers you're running!

With that said, I too have thought about replacing the caps and op amp. Years ago, I took a few budget front ends and performed the same basic mods. The results were very good. :) 

As for the tubes, I've only experimented around with a few power tubes.  So far, I've tried the following: The Stock JJ EL34's, Sino/Chinese EL34B's, and the Tung Sol EL34B's.   Here are my very basic impressions.

Stock JJ EL34's:     Good sounding tube for the money, albeit less linear than the other two. The JJ's have a grittier top end and lack the gravitas of the other two tubes in terms of bass presence and dynamic slam.Their mids are real nice. Believe it or not, I really love these tubes when they are set to uneven bias. In the case of the i34, I run 340 on the left side and 360 on the right. The presentation suddenly becomes downright lovely. Bass presence, super smooth top end, blossomed midrange. Real good stuff.

Sino Chinese/EL34B's:    Throwing these into the mix is like giving the i34 nearly twice the HP to draw from. These tubes are super powerful and linear. Tons of bass, crystal clear highs, and exceptional dynamics. The Sino EL34b's make the i34 sound a lot closer to a good solid state amp. The downside is that I think these tubes are just too much of a good thing. I love their power and linearity, but they are a bit too forward in the mids and highs for my taste. I also feel like the polarity of one of the tubes I had may have been off, as the imaging on the i34 became a lot more diffuse with them in place. Still, I can't help but wonder how these particular EL34B's would sound if paired up with a very warm/lush sounding set of ECC832's. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that these are the quietest tubes of the bunch.

TungSol EL34B's:    These are so new that I really can't have much of an opinion on them yet. So far, they appear to hit a good balance between the Chinese tubes and the JJ's.  They are very balanced from top to bottom. Extended highs, though not quite as 'gritty' as the JJ's (when biased evenly, that is). Great mids. Articulate and detailed yet not too blossomed out, and good bass. So far, the only complaint I'd have is that they seem to be a bit dynamically constrained. Then again, they are brand spanking new, so I will need to put a bit more time on them to come up with anything conclusive.

Ultimately, I really enjoy the performance of the i34.  Even with stock tubes and no mods, I've yet to find another affordable tube integrated in the same price point that does what it can do.  :thumb:  Once again, thanks for taking the time to detail your mods! I look forward to reading about how it all goes as you dig deeper down the rabbit hole! 

raindance

Re: Vista Audio i34 Mods
« Reply #6 on: 29 Aug 2010, 03:20 am »
According to Boris the low gain version was an earlier model...

My pop issues were due to poor packing - the volume pot got bent. But the Alps is in another league.

I also think the amp is good value for money. It is a lot of fun. I didn't expect a solid state front end though as that technically makes it a "hybrid".

I'm comparing it to my ClassDaudio amp that I'm busy building. That one is sweeter at the top end but lacks bass at present - I still have some bugs with the buffer I built for it...

Zero

Re: Vista Audio i34 Mods
« Reply #7 on: 29 Aug 2010, 10:47 pm »
Raindance,

I hear you on the packaging. The unit Boris sent me arrived damaged as well.  :duh:

I may have to give the ALPS pot a whirl. 

Also, I think you nailed it by saying that the amp is a lot of "fun".  Lately I've had the fortune of playing with a lot of expensive gear. I'm talking about the kind that come packaged in huge crates and cost around the price of a new entry level car, per piece! As great as they are, sometimes it does the soul good to plug in a very reasonably priced product that keeps the music fun and enjoyable. The i34 has been a fun stable mate thus far.

Thanks again for sharing the mods that you've performed thus far. I look forward to your reports as you spiff it up even more!


ZENTISH

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 43
Re: Vista Audio i34 Mods
« Reply #8 on: 31 Aug 2010, 05:12 pm »
Hi guys,  You should go to the Decware website and read about the Hazen mod that will work with el34's. It is a simple mod that reaps great benefits! Good Luck!
Tish

raindance

Re: Vista Audio i34 Mods
« Reply #9 on: 1 Sep 2010, 10:59 am »
I looked at the Hazen mod and must confess it scares me. Not one I'd like to try. I prefer everything to run at the proper operating point so my tubes keep working for a few years!!

raindance

Re: Vista Audio i34 Mods
« Reply #10 on: 9 Sep 2010, 08:52 pm »
Sorry I've gone quiet on the Vista mods - I've been diverted by my ClassDaudio CDA254 amp build. What a great sounding amp! I'll get back into the tube amp once I get my tubed preamp built for the ClassD unit.

On the to do list for the Vista i34:
- stepped attenuator balance control
- revised power supply for op-amp in first gain stage
- some tube rolling experiments