New high end P&S - Canon S95 or SD4500 IS? Or something else? Lumix LX5???

funkmonkey · « **on:** 22 Aug 2010, 06:24 pm »

I am going to pick up a new camera pretty soon, and though I am not quite ready to move to a DSLR yet, I want to get close. The convenience and compact size essential for this purchase. We have been happy with our old SD3000 up until recently, but now that we have a baby and are snapping tons of pictures I want a better, more current camera...

I'm not tied to a Canon, but this last one was good enough to make them top of the list for the new model. I have been waiting for a second generation of the S90 to appear, and that is about to happen, so the S95 is my current favorite. I have a couple of photography classes (film) under my belt (years ago) and don't mind messing around with photo editing software (have some past experience with photoshop, but mainly use iPhoto, or the basic software ("PhotoStudio") that came with the Canon). Time is at a premium, between work and keeping a 6 month old entertained when I am home, doesn't leave much time to tweek images. I have been reading a bit about RAW and the advantages , but it seems I would have to purchase some decent software to really take advantage of the format... So before I get too long winded here are a couple of links (Both are new models):

S95
SD4500 IS

the S95s key features for me are the f2.0 lens and aperture priority settings, and low light performance (high points of the S90 as well). Also nice that they added 720p video to the S95. The RAW capability is something that I may, or may not actually use.

The SD4500 has a couple of features that might really come in handy, especially considering that a child is going to be the most common subject, namely the faster shooting time and photo burst mode. The full 1080p HD video capability is another great feature of this model.

I know that either of these cameras will put the old SD3000 to shame.

My Dad has a Lumix and loves it, he is an old time photo buff and bought it for the Leica lens. I don't remember the model # but it's a mid range camera, a couple of years newer than our Canon, and it makes some very nice pictures. Which brings me to the:

DMC-LX5

I remember reading something about GPS tagging being built into this camera and thought that would be a cool feature for when we travel... plus all the other stuff that this beauty can do.

So that's what is on my radar.
If you guys have any insights or further suggestions please let me know, any and all help is greatly appreciated. Also any suggestions for better than basic photo editing software to handle RAW files (Mac) would be helpful as well. Thanks.
Cheers,
Greg

bside123 · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Aug 2010, 06:39 pm »

Funkmonkey: I was in the same situation not too long ago, as I did not want to carry around a DSLR and all the accessories that go with it. I wanted the convenience of a point and shoot, but wanted much better quality, automatic as well as manual control. Like others, I wanted the best of both worlds. With a lot of research, I settled on the Canon G-11. Full manual control of aperture, shutter speed and ISO ("film speed"). 28mm wide-angle lens zooms to 5X optical and 15X telephoto equivalent. The camera shoots in both JPEG and RAW, or can combine both. The G-11 uses the heralded CMOS processor which is shared only with their high-end DSLRs but not with their point and shoot series cameras. It also has a hot shoe external flash, and the lens mounting accepts filters, add-on adapters for telephoto applications as well as aftermarket products. I could go on, but to make a long story short... I'm very happy. Maybe you'd like to check it out, or you already know about the G-11. Best of luck.

funkmonkey · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Aug 2010, 06:50 pm »

bside123- you nailed it with the best of both worlds comment, and I have read about the G-11. The more compact size of the S90/S95 makes me lean more that way, but I will definitely revisit the G-11. Thanks

Looks like the aperture goes wider on the S95 vs. the G11 (f/2.0 vs. f/2.8 ), and twice the weight. Hmmm... I think I still like the S95 better, I am glad that you are happy with your G11 though, it certainly has its advantages, many of which you mentioned.

bside123 · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Aug 2010, 07:09 pm »

Funkmonkey: I considered the S90 for its size. Even though the G-11 is a little bigger, it just offered a bit more IMO. If I remember, the S90 has not hot shoe for external flash. The G-11 has the flip out display (very handy). The optical part of the S90 zoom only goes to 3.8X rather than the G-11s 5X... etc. etc. Just pull the specs and set them side by side. You'll see what works best for you. Also, if you have a chance, hold both cameras in your hands and see how they actually feel.

funkmonkey · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Aug 2010, 07:53 pm »

I agree with you bside123, the G-11 offers more... the hot shoe is a great feature, and the 5X optical zoom is awesome (I'm not a big fan of digital zoom to capture an image, I would rather do that later with a crop). I have picked up the both S90, and the G-11, and the G-11 feels more substantial, and more like a "real" camera, but I think the lighter, more compact S90/95 would sit more comfortably in my pocket (perhaps the most important consideration for this purchase). In a few more years I would like to pick up a DSLR if I rally want to get serious. For now though, my wife needs to be able to use it and not mind toting it around in her purse if it's not in my hands or pocket.

zybar · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Aug 2010, 08:01 pm »

To throw a wrench into the mix...

Looks like the G-12 could be just around the corner.

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/16506/canon_g12_digital_camera_leaks_again/index.html

George

funkmonkey · « **Reply #6 on:** 23 Aug 2010, 04:18 am »

LOL nice wrench, George

so... bside123, maybe I should stop trying to talk myself out of wanting a G-11 (or G-12) and be asking you how it feels in your pocket? kind of hard to try that out at BB with the short cable/security device attached...

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #7 on:** 23 Aug 2010, 04:22 am »

Next month we should see what more manufacturers are doing with EVIL.

funkmonkey · « **Reply #8 on:** 23 Aug 2010, 04:26 am »

EVIL?

Zero · « **Reply #9 on:** 23 Aug 2010, 05:00 am »

I enjoy the S95 because its a true high quality pocket-sized point and shoot that is capable of delivering fantastic results. There's a lot to be said for portability and convenience, especially when you are "on the move",

That said, I ended up going the Panasonic route. The image stabilization, lens, and color (especially in B&W modes) won me over Canons superior resolution, ease of use, and size. If you can, play with both cameras and see what works best for you. Both Panasonic and Canon point and shoots are top notch in terms of both build and image quality.

As an aside, I feel that when used to good effect, point and shoots like the Panasonic Lumix 3 and the Canon G11 are fully able to produce results that can mirror the performance of a relatively high end DSLR kit. Since I'm touching on sacred ground with this last statement, I will quickly curb any further opinions by saying... both Canon and Panasonic produce fine point and shoot cameras. I wouldn't get caught up in the specs. Go out, see which one feels the most comfortable in your hand, and which one takes the best results for your style of photography.

Good luck!

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #10 on:** 23 Aug 2010, 05:10 am »

Quote from: funkmonkey on 23 Aug 2010, 04:26 am

EVIL?

Electric Viewfinder Interchangeable Lens.

funkmonkey · « **Reply #11 on:** 23 Aug 2010, 05:54 am »

Quote from: Wind Chaser on 23 Aug 2010, 05:10 am

Electric Viewfinder Interchangeable Lens.

Hmmm... just Googled EVIL, me likey! Maybe I should get this one for the wife, and get something EVIL for me! Thanks for the heads up Wind Chaser.

And thanks for your input as well Zero.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #12 on:** 23 Aug 2010, 06:38 am »

I'm not sold on the EVIL concept because good technique in terms of how you hold the camera, is impossible. An SLR can be held in such a way to steady the camera to use slower shutters speeds but I don't see how this is possible with an EVIL camera. Tripods and monopods are fine when necessary, but I'd rather not have to use them if I don't have too.

bside123 · « **Reply #13 on:** 23 Aug 2010, 01:14 pm »

Quote from: funkmonkey on 23 Aug 2010, 04:18 am

LOL nice wrench, George
so... bside123, maybe I should stop trying to talk myself out of wanting a G-11 (or G-12) and be asking you how it feels in your pocket? kind of hard to try that out at BB with the short cable/security device attached...

Funkmonkey: I believe that BB has a generous return policy, wherein you can buy an item, and if it doesn't meet your needs, you can return or exchange it. I don't remember the exact time period... maybe 30 days?? If you don't like the G-11 (for instance) you could take it back. If the G-12 is coming out, the price of the G-11 is bound to drop. I also looked into the Panasonic because of the Leica lens, etc. Ultimately, I had seen too many pros using a G-10/G-11 on there "off time" as their snap shot, go to camera.

Most of the time I like the weight and feel of the G-11, as it's substantial in the "real" camera kind of way. Very seldom, it's bigger than I like... but most of the time it's just fine. I have used smaller point and shoot cameras in the past. I started out with a metal body Canon IXUS that I bought in Europe. They were always fun for that fast, spontaneous, whip-it-out kind of shots... and then back in the pocket. But... that style is much less "photography" then I currently want now.

Again, I was looking for that netherworld between artsy pro and holiday pics. For the spontaneous snap, when I'm not carrying my G-11, I still have my Droid cell phone with 5 megapixel capability. Blah. Blah. Blah, and I still wonder about the Leica lens and the Panasonic color.

low.pfile · « **Reply #14 on:** 23 Aug 2010, 03:03 pm »

greg,
Here are my insights on the P&S question:

Me: Snapshooter/amatuer photographer.

First, it's difficult to speculate on the upcoming cameras, without comparable samples. Yes, it may be possible to use the predecessors to make a assumption but some changes to the new model may greatly surpass the previous model.

I had an LX3. I found the Leica lens did have a bit of magic to it. Daylight photos were great. indoors especially low light had me wanting more. My friend's S90 I tried made me make the switch, as did the longer zoom reach. It's high ISO is very impressive for a point and shoot (I have a D700 DSLR for reference).

Another cool feature of the LX3/5 is burst shooting (only on jpg) hold in the shutter and shoot 30-40 shots in sequence. Great for kids. The S90/95 doesn't have this. And the B&W modes on the LX3/5 are great.

Compact size was a major criteria for me. So a G10/11 was not a consideration. I want to be able to pocket the camera in my Levi's (think live concert). The LX3 just barely fit in loose pants. The S90 works for me in this respect (even with the protruding lens). The LX3 also has an old school lens cap (as will the LX5)--for spontaneous pics this a little bit of a hassle. For general shooting I didn't mind. but it IS an extra step. Thd SD4500 will have the upper hand for compactness, as the lens retracts and has a smaller overall size. I have a similarly sized SD800.

Lastly, the sensor sizes and technologies do vary. The new SD4500 is a CMOS but only 1/2.3 size. The LX3/5 and S90/95 sensors are larger at 1/1.6inch and 1/1.7 respectively--both are CCD type. CMOS typically provides better high ISO capabilities but the SD4500's sensor is much smaller than the other two you are considering. the larger sensor size provide better image quality.

The new LX5 has increased the zoom to 90mm from the LX3's limited 60mm. That is appealing to me as is the expected boost in high ISO capability. This does have me thinking that at least a personal comparison is order.

As stated earlier, go try them out. Have fun.

zybar · « **Reply #15 on:** 23 Aug 2010, 03:05 pm »

Quote from: Zero on 23 Aug 2010, 05:00 am

I enjoy the S95 because its a true high quality pocket-sized point and shoot that is capable of delivering fantastic results. There's a lot to be said for portability and convenience, especially when you are "on the move",

That said, I ended up going the Panasonic route. The image stabilization, lens, and color (especially in B&W modes) won me over Canons superior resolution, ease of use, and size. If you can, play with both cameras and see what works best for you. Both Panasonic and Canon point and shoots are top notch in terms of both build and image quality.

As an aside, I feel that when used to good effect, point and shoots like the Panasonic Lumix 3 and the Canon G11 are fully able to produce results that can mirror the performance of a relatively high end DSLR kit. Since I'm touching on sacred ground with this last statement, I will quickly curb any further opinions by saying... both Canon and Panasonic produce fine point and shoot cameras. I wouldn't get caught up in the specs. Go out, see which one feels the most comfortable in your hand, and which one takes the best results for your style of photography.

Good luck!

Is the S95 even out yet?

George

Zero · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Aug 2010, 03:08 pm »

George,

Good catch. S90, S95, it's all the same at 6:00 AM with zero hours of sleep.

low.pfile · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Aug 2010, 03:09 pm »

Nope, the S95 is not available, but the only substantial change is that it has 720P video vs the S90's 480 video

and fixes the usability issue of the easy to accidentally hit 'rear control ring'...the major interface. The aftermarket fix is now incorporated into the S95--I have this great little tweak.

funkmonkey · « **Reply #18 on:** 24 Aug 2010, 04:02 am »

Thanks for the help guys. I will go check 'em out in person when they hit the shelves at the end of the month.

low.pfile, your experience is very helpful, thank you...

Do you guys have any suggestions about software? I'm not sure that "photoshop" is worth the price of admission anymore (unless of course, you are a professional, then I actually do think it is worth it), but I have considered shelling out for it to use for the occasional graphic design endeavor that I find myself doing... Also, I recently noticed an update of iPhoto that said something about increasing the RAW handling capabilities. What software do you guys use to handle your more creative shots?
Cheers and thanks again,
Greg

Hyfi · « **Reply #19 on:** 24 Aug 2010, 04:45 pm »

As said above, the G11 is an awesome camera for both auto and manual as well as all the individual scene settings. The video is not HD but is very good if you just want a vid of something. The battery life is also real good.

As far as how it fits in a pocket goes, just get the nice little leather case that just fits the camera and has a belt loop.