Frank, you've done it again!

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martyo

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #20 on: 16 Aug 2010, 02:48 pm »
Quote
Check out the class and decorum that James Tanner exhibits in his Bryston circle. That would be a good role model. Being a smart-ass is funny to some of you but to me, I wouldn't buy from AVA because of this. You can gain more customers from being civil than being condescending.

I don't go out of my way to bash manufacturers products like some of the heavy hitters on AC do with Franks, but when the circumstance arises I'll share my own experiences. Having compared the Bryston 4bbbb....whatever, their current model 6 months ago, directly to the Ultra double 550, in my system and anothers, it wasn't even close. The Bryston sounded more like my mid-fi Carver gear. The BP26 compared to the AVA T-8 and the Manly Jumpo Shrimp was even worse. Then if you want to bring price into it  :roll:
And I think a couple NYAR'ers would disagree with the "class and decorum" on the Bryston circle.


Quote
You can gain more customers from being civil than being condescending.
I agree with you here. 

boycephoto

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #21 on: 16 Aug 2010, 03:12 pm »
I know music sooths the savage beast, and isn't music what this is all about anyway?  Sounds like a few need some music therapy so, just turn on the HI-Fi with your favorite artist and let all of your problems go away.  :D

[bSend this thread to the trash can![/b]. 


charmerci

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #22 on: 16 Aug 2010, 03:16 pm »
I realized that some of you guys would run to Frank's defense since you're part of the AVA cult, but did it ever occur to you (and Frank) that maybe not being a smart-ass in other people's forums might be a good idea? I know he doesn't believe in audio foo-foo and puts emphasis on solid engineering, but that doesn't mean that he has to belittle those who believe in boutique caps or bare wire connections on their components. Why not say nothing instead?


I've called out Frank on this before (though I haven't seen this particular post Bill mentioned) because I do know of some people who won't consider his products because of that. But your first "Grow up, dude" post, doesn't cut it either.

Anyway, it's his business to lose. If he's happy making those comments, oh well.....
« Last Edit: 16 Aug 2010, 10:25 pm by charmerci »

Construct

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Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #23 on: 16 Aug 2010, 04:03 pm »
I don't own the AVA stuff anymore, it wasn't set up for 220v when I went overseas for 3 years.  But needless to say, he doesn't publish specs because it's unimportant save for power output, which he does publish.  I agree that negative conduct (or so perceived)  can hurt a manufacturer.  That being said, make sure you don't leave your cryo-treated cables in direct sunlight.  The photon pressure will slow the Theton flow rate.  BTW:  AVA does = or >  Bryston for 1/2 the price.

Brett Buck

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Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #24 on: 16 Aug 2010, 04:22 pm »
I'm not a part of any "AVA cult", and I don't own any AVA equipment.  I just don't understand why someone would actually create a topic for the specific purpose of calling someone out to chide them.

    You don't understand it?  I thought it was pretty obvious. People invest themselves in these loony notions (magic wires, shakti stones, gold solder, whatever, etc.) because they want all their audio buddies to think they are really super-enthusiasts, people to look up to due to superior knowledge, etc. They like the idea that they can look down on others. "Oh, yes, those $1.79 interconnect are probably just fine, for you. I of course have higher standards, but not everyone can tell the difference like I can" - etc. It's classic poseur action, and the world of high fidelity is among the worst groups for this sort of thing. The entire "high end" audio salon industry depends on people buying into this and trying to one-up each other, with ever-increasing levels of delusion. Talk about cult behavior, the high-end audio is a series of cults all trying to out-snob each other. No one is actually paying attention to the results and making anything like objective - or frequently even rational - evaluations.

    But boy howdy - gore their ox, and you aren't just engaging in a sober debate over the merits of the situation, you are deflating their emotional bubble of superiority. Then you are playing with fire, their very belief system is being attacked. And they will react emotionally.

    Of course, it was also blatantly classic internet trolling. Laughably pathetic, but effective.

    Brett

TjMV3

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #25 on: 16 Aug 2010, 04:41 pm »
I think it's funny that some people would refuse to buy AVA equipment based on Frank's forthrightness....speaking his mind and often using it in the context of humor.

But they'll buy equipment (and cables) from salesmen (and business owners) who talk a bunch of fantasy and BS;  as to drain their wallets of double...triple....four time the money more than AVA gear. :lol: :lol:

Yeah,  that makes a ton of sense :roll: :lol:

dB Cooper

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #26 on: 16 Aug 2010, 04:45 pm »
I'm not part of an AVA (or any other, afaik) cult. I just like the stuff and have had good results with it always. Just don't understand why somebody would feel a need to remind themselves why they don't buy a particular brand of equipment (which I wonder if they have ever heard). A BB reverse stalker... must have more time on his hands than most of us. Can't we all just get along? If someone likes listening to music on a JVC boombox with a busted cassette deck, that is fine with me.

Wayner

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #27 on: 16 Aug 2010, 05:14 pm »
He can listen to his boom-box all he wants. but my city has an ordinance that prohibits amplified music from reaching anyone else by a 50 foot radius from any device. It's a good law and it has teeth.

Children are dangerous with them.

Wayner  :lol:

rollo

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Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #28 on: 16 Aug 2010, 06:33 pm »
    You don't understand it?  I thought it was pretty obvious. People invest themselves in these loony notions (magic wires, shakti stones, gold solder, whatever, etc.) because they want all their audio buddies to think they are really super-enthusiasts, people to look up to due to superior knowledge, etc. They like the idea that they can look down on others. "Oh, yes, those $1.79 interconnect are probably just fine, for you. I of course have higher standards, but not everyone can tell the difference like I can" - etc. It's classic poseur action, and the world of high fidelity is among the worst groups for this sort of thing. The entire "high end" audio salon industry depends on people buying into this and trying to one-up each other, with ever-increasing levels of delusion. Talk about cult behavior, the high-end audio is a series of cults all trying to out-snob each other. No one is actually paying attention to the results and making anything like objective - or frequently even rational - evaluations.

    But boy howdy - gore their ox, and you aren't just engaging in a sober debate over the merits of the situation, you are deflating their emotional bubble of superiority. Then you are playing with fire, their very belief system is being attacked. And they will react emotionally.

    Of course, it was also blatantly classic internet trolling. Laughably pathetic, but effective.

    Brett


 It is not the system they are defending it is THEIR opinion or belief. That is the real issue as to why some get their hairs up. Wether it is a placebp effect or fact does not matter. They like it. Then someone comes along and accuses them of believing in flooby dust, magic and so on. They are being ranked out. No one likes that.
  Saying that it is hard to respect a Manf. who makes fun of them. Sound engineering is one thing making fun of is another.
  As far as Franks gear, to each his own. Not my cup of tea but but still a fine product for someone. There is no best for everyone to many subjective factors about.


charles

adydula

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Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #29 on: 16 Aug 2010, 07:01 pm »
Hi Rollo!

Good to see you over here!!

Didnt mean to ruffle your feathers over on the connector vs mechanical thread etc..

I personally think you guys are smoking some neat stuff, but if you really are hearing or think your hearing great wondersous things then GREAT and Good for You!

If you want to prove it to me do the old Frank Van Alstines double blind tests etc....until then no thanks!!

Now where is that 16ga Home Depot wire made in China??

All the best
a little humor here!!

Alex

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Wayner

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #30 on: 16 Aug 2010, 08:56 pm »
By the way, Frank was in the "Path of Least Resistance" circle, which is not an owner's circle, but pretty much a playground for anyone, owners or otherwise.

His comment (and there was only one posting) was meant more for humor, rather then a slam on anyone's thoughts or connections concerning the topic. No person was singled out, or ridiculed.

In my opinion, Bill has blown a simple (humorous in Frank's way) comment and turned it into a demeaning statement, damning everyone who visits the thread. This just isn't the case.

I think it is bad operating procedures to "burn bridges". In my life, when I did that, it was usually in a short period of time that I needed that persons help.

I know for a fact that Frank would help anyone who just simply asked. You might not like the answer, but it is a straightforward answer, based in real world ingredients.

Wayner 8)

avahifi

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #31 on: 16 Aug 2010, 09:13 pm »
The basic question still remains: If hard wiring all connections is best, then what about all those poor little vacuum tubes with not only bad connections, but open connections between all their internal elements?

I suppose one could hard solder the tube pins in your system into their sockets and that would be of some help, at least until you need to change tubes.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Wayner

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #32 on: 16 Aug 2010, 09:20 pm »
And hence the invention of the vacuum tube socket, making the vacuum tube a consumer replaceable device (and done safely). The also good news is that the tubes are keyed and asymmetrical, making their replacement pretty much fool proof. Of course I could be wrong on the "fool proof" concept.

Wayner :D

mark funk

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #33 on: 16 Aug 2010, 09:22 pm »
Shit! That's all Frank said? That's an old one I heard it before. That was being funny, he even used one of these   :).  Believe me if Frank wanted to be a real smart ass he could do a lot better job then that.


 I guess I did not post this fast enough  :lol:     


                                                                                         :smoke:

trebejo

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #34 on: 16 Aug 2010, 09:36 pm »
So the basic magic cable huckterism comes down to the flawed belief that an electron actually travels from the beginning to the end of the audio chain?

Is THAT what we have been dealing with all this time??

Please say it ain't so. Please.

avahifi

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #35 on: 16 Aug 2010, 10:21 pm »
You know i completely overlooked all those capacitors!   :o

More terrible electrical connections, the darn signal path actually has to go through an insulator!

How do we hard wire all the inputs to the outputs to all those capacitors and still make the circuits work?  Oh dear oh dear.

Worried,

Frank Van Alstine

Construct

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Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #36 on: 16 Aug 2010, 11:55 pm »
And just how they make those awesome recordings using cable that is little more than industrial generic and low cost . Stunning.

JerryM

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Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #37 on: 17 Aug 2010, 12:35 am »
I realized that some of you guys would run to Frank's defense since you're part of the AVA cult, but did it ever occur to you (and Frank) that maybe not being a smart-ass in other people's forums might be a good idea?

Wow; was 'contradictory' on your word of the day calendar?  :scratch:

In any case, you should try reading some of Frank's Audio Basic newsletters. They can be found here. One of my favorites is from 1982 regarding the Telarc 1812 recording. Give it a read.

You may notice in these writings that Frank has always used this type of analogous wit to try and make folks understand that this hobby is more about the music than sweating the small stuff. It certainly doesn't seem condescending to me; he has been pointing simple things out in this fashion for decades.

There is a lot to be said for consistency. More so than contradiction, anyway.  :thumb:

Have fun,
Jerry

adydula

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Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #38 on: 17 Aug 2010, 12:48 am »
Wow!

What a wonderful set of ideas!

But if you hard wired your capacitors then they would not be capacitors would they? My oh my what a dilema.

I am about half way thru soldering my tubes in the Ultravalve, but wait will this void my warranty Frank??? Also I ran out of solder and had to buy a different brand is this going to cause any soundfield issues??? :duh:

Just some humor here..Frank please dont ever stop being "Frank"!!

I am sitting here listening to Fourplay's, In Between the sheets, via the Ultravalve and a pair of SALK SongTowers..that little marraige made in heaven , and its a 10 out of 10....you go Larry Carlton, Harvey Mason, Bob James and Nathan East...Life is too short...and I am not even thinking of my stinking mechanical bannana plug connectors !!!!!


All the Beet
Alex

srb

Re: Frank, you've done it again!
« Reply #39 on: 17 Aug 2010, 12:49 am »
I suppose one could hard solder the tube pins in your system into their sockets and that would be of some help, at least until you need to change tubes.

Vincent Audio has already beat you to it by soldering vacuum tubes directly into the circuit boards of their hybrid preamps, power amps and integrateds.  Yeah, I know they're just small signal tubes, but I guess no one who has every owned a tube component has ever replaced a small signal tube.
 
Steve