[PDR]

I have decided that I would like a new project to work on.......horns have fascinated me for a long time and i would like to give them a whirl. I have been to the frugal site many times and because
of the detailed drawings and the price point of the Fostex drivers I think I would like to try one of these designs. I have no size restrictions.....and I'm thinking bigger is better. The Dallas II intrigues
me....but I really dont know, I need your guys advice.
What would you guys recommend? the Dallas II or maybe one of the bigger spawn designs?
Or something completely different?
Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks.............Perry

[silver_strings]

Hi you should check out the youtube vids that are up of people showing off their horn speakers I remember I just typed in  fostex horns or something and I got a bunch of vids of different single driver horn speakers vids

[JLM]

I'm not a great fan of the FE206E, normally it has the typical high efficiency midrange shout and midbass thinness.  I've only heard it sound good in a 0.75 cu. ft. ported cabinet.  (It didn't have much bass for an 8 inch driver, but seemed like it might pair up well with a sub.)

I note that the Dallas II and III have a flat panel directly behind the driver.  Not sure exactly how big this flat spot is, but most horn designs try to avoid this as the backwave would reflect directly back to the driver which causes smearing.  And the thin, acoustically somewhat transparent cone material would allow some of this backwave sound to come out through the cone as slightly delayed echo.

The cabinet looks more expensive to build than warranted for the selected driver.

[gvimhoof]

If you don't have any size restrictions, then "bigger is better" might be the quickest/easiest approach for a single driver Fostex cabinet.  BIB speaker is only six pieces of wood and it seams everyone who's built one is impressed.  That would give you something to break them in with in place until a more complicated design gets finished.  I don't have the space, but those dual mouth spawn designs have always intrigued me.

[mightym]

Perry,

I was where you are last year, in regards to wanting to try the Dallas II's.  I fell off the deep end and am currently building a pair.  I've spent the last year chasing down information on them, corresponding with people who've actually built them, reading everything I could find that the designer wrote about them, etc.

I've been breaking in my drivers on an OB I knocked out in an afternoon, they started off spitty, and harsh, as I expected.  with somewhere between 30-40 hrs. on them they've smoothed out considerably, if they keep improving as they have I'll be very happy, especially when I have them actually in the horn.

The people who've been kind enough to correspond with me have been uniformly happy with their results.  one even said he'd built his last speaker ( I say, never say never ).

I would be glad to share the information I've gleaned from the WWW with you.

If you want to follow along with my adventure, there's a thread here about it, started by myself.  I also have some pic's in the gallery of my progress.

Good luck with your decision.

John

[PDR]

hey John,

LOL.....I have been following your build thread, I can hardly wait to get your impressions!
I've gone as far as to record all of your coordinates...x and y measurements    Thanks!
I see you have built a few horns already.....nice.

I have quite a bit of experience with the actual building of cabinets. I have built 2 different
arrays, 2 subs (each with 2x12" drivers), a center channel, and a OB (my avatar) all from internet designers.
They have all turned out very nice, and the quality of the products are outstanding. I still own all
of them along with a number of manufactured speaks.  Perhaps I have a hoarding disorder....
So I build......but the technical side of xover design and such....not so much.
This is why the single driver horns interest me.....that, and I need something to tinker with.

The Dallas II interest me....I will be paying attention to your build, and your thoughts.
I was considering the Saburo, but from what I understand the drivers wont be sold anymore.
Have contacted Dave from planet 10....from what I understand there are still some available,
just dont know if I want to build a box I cant get replacement drivers for.

Anyway....I think the Dallas will probably be my first horn build.....just have to order up the drivers
I will also post my progress....but wont start my build till prob late november.

Looking forward to your build posts.....

Perry

[mightym]

Thanks Perry, I'll add you to the list of watchers ( I'm up to 4 now alright! ).

I don't know what you know, Re: the designer's thoughts on building these horns.  But going back to the original Fullrange Driver Forum, I can paraphrase Mr, Clarke's thoughts:  Put some felt in the chamber behind the driver, and in the bends.  Add 1 to 4 Ohms series resistance to taste.

Doesn't seem like you can get more simple than that....

If you are seriously considering this project, you might want to try and scare up a pair of the FE-206e's ( original's ) as they too are being replace by FE-206en's.  I compared the specs the other day, and there are significant differences in Fs, Xmax, and I can't remember the rest.  Those 2 items, to me would seem to limit the use of the new driver in this horn... IDK.

I bought my drivers of another AC'er last fall ( got a good price too...).

Have fun,
John

[chrisby]

If you are seriously considering this project, you might want to try and scare up a pair of the FE-206e's ( original's ) as they too are being replace by FE-206en's.  I compared the specs the other day, and there are significant differences in Fs, Xmax, and I can't remember the rest.  Those 2 items, to me would seem to limit the use of the new driver in this horn... IDK.


Have fun,
John

FWIW:
The significant differences in certain details of published specs between the old and new "6" series had a few folks rather concerned, but after a couple of recent projects with FE126E of both vintages, I found the newest version to be an improvement.  It still retains a degree of that upper midrange "jump" factor that some find charming, and others a bit fatiguing without treatment, but certainly it'll sound very familiar to those experienced with the previous version - it's certainly been a big hit with many owners of Hornshoppe Horns.

Without painting myself into a corner, it seem reasonable to assume that new production versions of the 166 and 206 should work well in enclosures "optimized" by math or by iterative fiddling for their immediate predecessors. 

[planet10]

I also have some pic's in the gallery of my progress.

John,

Can you point me to those? Can i steal them for the frugal-horn site?

dave

[planet10]

The Dallas II interest me....I will be paying attention to your build, and your thoughts.
I was considering the Saburo, but from what I understand the drivers wont be sold anymore.
Have contacted Dave from planet 10....from what I understand there are still some available,
just dont know if I want to build a box I cant get replacement drivers for.

The same situation exists for Dallas... FE206e is even scarcer then FE126e... but as Chris says, the new drivers will work in the old enclosures, and the new drivers are encouragement to take what has been learned and evolve things further. Check out Scott's development on the Spawns... http://www.wodendesign.com/ We had the 1st public appearance of Maeshowe at the diyFEST this last weekend. Despite not "officially" working with FE126En, they were, IMHO, a bit more finessed than the (VERY GOOD) Saburo that also made an appearance.

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/clubs-events/160514-7th-annual-vancouver-island-diyfest-2010-a-17.html#post2281623

Note: Saburo had FE126eN (based on FE126e), Maeshowe had 1st pass at FE126eN^2 (based on FE126En)

dave

[planet10]

If you are seriously considering this project, you might want to try and scare up a pair of the FE-206e's ( original's ) as they too are being replace by FE-206en's.  I compared the specs the other day, and there are significant differences in Fs, Xmax, and I can't remember the rest.  Those 2 items, to me would seem to limit the use of the new driver in this horn...

I do have to do a comparison of actual measures of FE206e vrs FE206En, but FE126En (sample of 4) falls into the standard variation of the FE126e (100s), with Fs and efficiency than the mean of the FE126e.

dave

[mightym]

I've been out of pocket.  Dave you are welcome to any of my crappy phone cam pics you desire to use.  I'm glad to hear that my initial impression of the "New" specs won't disallow them from use in the Dallas BLH.  The Pics are located in the gallery here at AC under my screen name.  They are in the " Uploaded Pictures" section.  Conversely, I can E-Mail them to you if you wish.  I believe that you have changed your main address.  Just let me know by PM or in a thread.
John

[PDR]

So the new models can be used in both the Dallas and the Saburo.......hmmmm.
The Saburo was my first choice......but the Dallas is also right there....

Maybe I'll build the Saburo first and get Mightys take on the Dallas....
Mighty have you heard the Saburo....to make a comparison?

Dave......I have to make my mind up.....then I'll place an order with you.

Flip.Flop.Flip.Flop.

These Horns are so cool to look at....I can hardly wait to hear one....
I feel like a 50 yr old kid.....hmmm............maybe cause I am.

[mightym]

Perry, your not the only 50 Yr. old kid here abouts.  For me it was the choice of Sachiko/ Dallas II.  The Dallas won out because of slightly higher WAF.  But I may still build a Sachiko or something like it one day....

John

[planet10]

]
Maybe I'll build the Saburo first and get Mightys take on the Dallas....
Mighty have you heard the Saburo....to make a comparison?

Dave......I have to make my mind up.....then I'll place an order with you.

Well let me confuse you further... at last WE's diyFEST we compared Saburo to our beta build of Maeshowe... Maeshowe, IMO, had a bit more finese  than Saburo. That is what i'd build.

dave

[PDR]

Thanks Dave......one more question please.

I've seen the illustrations of the Maeshowe on Scotts site.
With the horn opening facing rearward is there requirements
in placement? Such as so far from rear and side walls..are they to be in corners?

They look like an easier build than the Saburo, and perhaps not as heavy, hard to tell.

Thanks................Perry

[chrisby]

Thanks Dave......one more question please.

I've seen the illustrations of the Maeshowe on Scotts site.
With the horn opening facing rearward is there requirements
in placement? Such as so far from rear and side walls..are they to be in corners?

For this first build, there were removable supra-baffles made to accommodate quick change/testing of 4 different (nominally) 4" drivers - the FE126E and 3 Mark Audio models. 

We also adjusted placement of the rear panel of the driver chamber (i.e. moved it further back, reducing the volume of the adjoining void cavity)  to allow for experimentation with damping levels, and adding solid blocks to fine tune volume per driver.  That's still "underway". 

To make a long story short, even in the very early stages of the fine tuning process, I didn't find the performance of any of the drivers suffered from being 2-3 feet from the back wall and lacking side wall boundary reinforcement.

They look like an easier build than the Saburo, and perhaps not as heavy, hard to tell.

Thanks................Perry

Well, the Maeshowe certainly has fewer number of internal panels and folds to fiddle with, is shorter but approx 3/4" wider than the Saburo, and yes not as heavy.

OTOH, the curved mouth is a fundamental part of the design, and isn't as easy to cut as the rectangular side panels of Saburo, Sachiko or their Wod-scendants   . Fortunately I have access to a CNC router, which helps a lot - but with a decent jig saw and some patience, an MDF template could be made and the side panels cut with a pattern following router bit.  (as I did with the latest FH3) 


All of which is irrelevant to the subject of a project for  Fostex 166 or 206 - it's just not a matter of increasing dimensions of a few parts to "scale" for larger drivers - I'd expect the "maths" would need to be reworked for the design to perform well.

 

[doorman]

Yes, the Maeshowe re-produces music with finesse and authority, I preferred it to the Saburo, YMMV, of course.
-almost too much bass w/ the Alpair driver!!
With the FE126eN, it was excellent.
Smaller cab, too!
Don

[PDR]

Thanks Chris.....I'm not sold on either the 166 or the 206....I really dont know anything except
that I want to build a horn, and if I'm going to go to the effort it might as well be a good one...

I have a bunch of different speaks here.....I'm not looking for a end all be all, just a project for the
cold winter up here in Canada. I do want it to be the best I can build however, and that is where
the wealth of knowledge that you guys give here is priceless....by the way.....Thanks!

I think that from what you guys have said here and on the other forum that the Maeshowe
would be to my liking......it seems to get a lot of thumbs up from the people that have heard it.

My woodworking skills are such that I will have no problems with the long arcs needed to be cut.

So...from what I understand is that I purchase the plans from Scotts site.....cool, that would seem to
be my next step....then a order from dave for the drivers.

Ok then........thanks from all of you guys.

Mighty.....still going to pay close attention to your Dallas build and impressions.

Perry