[Charles Calkins]

John:
 The Rega has a 301 tonearm. No I didn't hear any hum with the Grado. Maybe that's why the Rega has the 301 instead of the RB-251.

 Have you any opinion on the Stantom 681 Mk III HiFi cartridge.

  I have a Stanton T-90 USB TT with their 500B cartridge and it sounds pretty good. So I thought that the 681 costs about $100 or a little more I might give it a try.

                                      Cheers
                                     Charlie

[TheChairGuy]

John:
 The Rega has a 301 tonearm. No I didn't hear any hum with the Grado. Maybe that's why the Rega has the 301 instead of the RB-251.

 Have you any opinion on the Stantom 681 Mk III HiFi cartridge.

Ahh, I meant the 301, not 251

No matter, all Rega 251 and 301's are essentially undamped...not at all a good situation for Grado's.  No hum is great to know....I suspect Rega is now shielding their motors if that's the case.  As the motor is very smooth and refined now I understand....the combination makes a lot more cartridges sound good on it.

I haven't heard the 681...but I'm a fan of Stanton and Pickering cartridges, in general.

That said, I think you will like the Denon DL-110 or 160 (if you can stretch to them) better. 

They're really good sounding cartridges, and very easy to hook up with their large color coded pins and mounting arrangements. They are moving coil type cartridges - which means nothing in itself - but, they tend to have a different (just slightly rising) signature on the treble frequencies...that helps offset hearing decline in treble ranges for us older folks

The widest range of vinylphools I know of likes them...making them almost a universally safe recommendation. Other makes have their fans, but their detractors too...the Denon's rarely have more than token resistance to their charms

John

[Charles Calkins]

John:
 Thanks for the info. I looked at the Denon site and they have two cartridges that I'm thinking about. DL-103R and DL-30III

                            Cheers
                          Charlie
 P.S.
  Right now I've got the Stanton playing through the APLHIFI DAC. Best sound in my house. But the Stanton is a manual TT. Very frustating!!!!!!!

[TheChairGuy]

Charlie,

The 103 and 300-series Denons are low output cartridges....your in for an altogether new batch of issues if you choose them (they are also $150-and-up...before you add additional phono amplicaition devices that you'll need to use them)

That is, assuming our phono stage does not have MC inlet(?).  Not sure offhand....you hadn't mentioned your phono stage that you are using.

The 110 and 160 require no additional amplification stages for use...just properly mount on the end of your tonearm and plug in as you do with your Stanton 500 and Grado now.

John

[Charles Calkins]

John:
 I have Frank van Alstine's AVASTAR preamp with phono stage. Works with cartridges 1.5MV or higher.


                             Cheers
                             Charlie                   
               

[TheChairGuy]

John:
 I have Frank van Alstine's AVASTAR preamp with phono stage. Works with cartridges 1.5MV or higher.

You'll need another device, a pre-preamp, to use either the 103 or 301 series cartridges with your phono stage.  They output only 0.3mv or so

The Denon Dl-110 and 160 officially output 1.6mv, but have been measured at a more useful 2.2mv, on average.  That will be plenty good enough with your AVASTAR preamp.

Yeah - you have a full functioned preamp there, very voltage regulated...in the hands of an experienced vinylphile builder like Frank van Alstine, you have the building blocks to trounce digital with the right vinyl front end.  The DL-110 or 160 should be excellent upgrades for you...a lot of folks end their vinyl wanderings with just these cartridges - they are THAT good

John

[drphoto]

Hey it's me again, the new guy also w/ a Rega P3-24.

 I'm running the Denon DL-160 and really like it a lot....well love it, for the most part. The problems I've had relate back to John's mention of a SS pre, as the problems I've had (once I got basic setup and mechanical isolation issues sorted out) were due to noisy tubes in the phono section of my pre. What I have now works nicely, but they are not totally dead quiet.  I wish I could try my Tempest SS pre, but there's something wrong w/ the output RCA's....I need to send it back to the factory.

The DL-160 is high output for a moving coil, but there's still a lot of gain needed. I might try a MM like an Orfoton 2M, once I replenish my audio slush fund. (which may take some time)

I got back into vinyl more or less because of nostalgia. I considered the Tranquility DAC and could have had one for the money I've spent (less the Mac Mini...would have used my Mac Powerbook)

The fact that the vinyl sounds so good, is really a bonus for me. I like the look of a TT. I like the ritualistic aspect of playing a record. As other have pointed out in discussions of all sorts, audio playback is different things to different people. Digital vs analog, tube vs. SS, single driver speaker lovers......the list goes on and on......

Another bonus for me is going to a locally owned shop and scoring killer sounding records for $5.

I have a very good digital front end. At some point, I will probably get the Tranquility DAC. As it stands, the digital is a more impressive sound, more slam, lower bass, more perceived detail, but when I listen alone, I prefer the musicality of the analog.

I have been suprised by the lack of surface noise issues. Oh sure there's the occasional 'tick' or 'pop'. Sometimes there a scratchy bit during the lead in, but for some reason.....it just doesn't bother me.

Again. I am not waving the flag of the "Almighty Analog"! It has just turned out to be something I happen to like. And I really appreciate the help I've gotten here from John, Wayne and others.

Sorry to ramble. I tend to do that more on this particular forum than any of the others. 

[2bigears]

   all rambles are good rambles.you will like the Tranquility DAC for sure.....  Eric has it figured out.....

[drphoto]

Yeah, I've met Eric a few times and he's one smart dude, who is really committed to this game. Hellava nice guy too. I was hoping he could pull this off, and by all acounts, it appears he has.

Like I said, I think taste plays a big part in this.

I would say, really good computer based audio, probably wins  for the most part on sound quality. But analog still has a role to play for other reasons. Hopefully for a long time.

The "CD player" now seems like it was an interem step. Digital data, stored on a quiet  hard drive and sent to a DAC that is low jitter is probably the present and future of audio playback.

But I still like pulling out that big 'ole disk, and giving it a dusting w/ my carbon fiber brush and dropping the needle....only to get up and walk over to flip it over and repeat!

cheers,

BTW: its's all good....as long as the music makes you happy.

[TheChairGuy]

Hey drphoto,

As far as lacking 'slam' - look over my list several posts above.  Integrate, within your budget, a few or all of them and you'll have equivalent slam with your digital system - in at least small to medium sized rooms. 

But, if you're happy as is, or your budget needs time to regain it's former self...just enjoy what you got.  It sounds as tho you're happy - 'tis good, bro

Charlie shouldn't have problems getting enough clean gain with the DL-160 on his preamp, unless his amps are somehow particularly lowish gain for some reason.  A twiddle of the volume control is likely all that's needed.

I love the simple, clean look of the Rega's, too

John

[Delta Wave]

Did I see a Rega/Grado pairing? That reminds of the old days on The Vinyl Engine before I was waylaid by incessant jackassery. 

Good advice once again John.

[Russellc]

  i did not see this coming one little bit.....started a new diggie front end with a mac mini, with Eric's DB-Tranguility  dac. all i can say is this little inexpensive system kicks real ass.i am not sure how or if 0 & 1 's can sound any better.i wanted a better sounding cd system for some time now and i really think this is the way to go.one side note is with 800 cd's loaded,your whole song list is in your hand with a ipod touch as a remote....all too cool and too easy.the sound blows me away to say the least.the better mastered cd's are mind-blowing....the fun has come back and it did not cost an arm and a leg......   the mac mini is cool,they[Apple] are making $325 million a day for a reason,they have some cool gear.Eric at DB is a super nice guy.wish i was as smart as he... system is  new to me,but i have to A-B the vinyl soon,will have to listen real close i can foresee.....vinyl is still cool....if you are not happy with your diggie world,try this stuff.........

Where do I learn more about this mac mini and eric's tranguility deal?  One thing about vinyl that you just cant get with CD:  A lot of albums never made it to CD.  I'll always have both.

Russellc

[Miney]

Where do I learn more about this mac mini and eric's tranguility deal?

Perhaps this thread will help... http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=74816.0

[95Dyna]

  John,you have the VPI Classic as your main spinner,?? right ? can you tell what 3 carts your ears like the best as i find that kinda info really good for all. Woodsyi,you bring up a point i too really wonder about,will diggie keep getting better ?? if the last while's improvements keep going,where will we be in 5 years ????  every 16 months diggie tech doubles,soooo how good will those 0's-1's sound.... also,are speakers being left behind,seems they are stuck in the mud,unless you have crazy cash....

Hi bigears,

I have the VPI Classic and am using the Benz Wood SL.  Although I haven't been able to compare it to anything else (another story) I really like the way it sounds.  In terms of compliance and weight it's a perfect match for the JMW 10.i SE.  My dealer tells me his customers prefer it and the Lyra Delos in terms of what he's sold so far.

Bill

[2bigears]

  hi Bill. my latest greatest little question tt related is:if a 5 to 6 grand tt sounds very-very good,is it really worth spending 6 to 12 large,[used].do these 20 grand tt's sound that much better.?? if you can't get this stuff in your house,i guess you roll the dice ???? some good deals out there on used tt's.......

[95Dyna]

hi Bill. my latest greatest little question tt related is:if a 5 to 6 grand tt sounds very-very good,is it really worth spending 6 to 12 large,[used].do these 20 grand tt's sound that much better.?? if you can't get this stuff in your house,i guess you roll the dice ???? some good deals out there on used tt's.......

The answer to that question is highly subjective.  To me the VPI/Benz combo sounds very-very-VERY good and it cost me $3,375.00 brand new.  So my "highly subjective" answer is no.  I would spend the difference on new vinyl and a good record cleaning machine such as the VPI HW16.5.

[kingdeezie]

hi Bill. my latest greatest little question tt related is:if a 5 to 6 grand tt sounds very-very good,is it really worth spending 6 to 12 large,[used].do these 20 grand tt's sound that much better.?? if you can't get this stuff in your house,i guess you roll the dice ???? some good deals out there on used tt's.......

I think the answer to this is absolutely.

Vinyl, and the equipment required to play them, is a niche market within a niche market. Premium prices are charged because so few units are sold, but a lot of these things are also expensive to manufacture as well.

A turntables job is easy to understand, but producing a turntable that works to an extremely high degree is not cheap, and requires top quality materials and precision machining and construction.

Eventually you may hit a point of diminishing returns, but I think it costs a pretty penny to achieve that point.

I mean take a look at something like Davinci Audio AAS-Gabriel Turntable. Yes, it retails new for 60K. But, I highly doubt it costs pennies to make either.