VR 2 bass "issues"

bogiedr · « **on:** 1 Aug 2010, 10:13 pm »

Hello everyone. First post here, (newbie), with a problem with VR 2 and lack of bass.
Driven by Cayin A50T, sources are Luxman TT with ClearAudio Classic wood, Escient server and Bellari phono stage. Mids, highs and holographic qualities are typical V.S. WOW!!!!!

Lack of bass driving me nuts.

Add a sub, anyone with same issues? I have not done the lead shot thing. Any reccomendations will be really appreciated!!
Hit them straight

JackD201 · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Aug 2010, 12:09 am »

Hi Bogie,

I've got an A50T too. I'm afraid you just lack some juice. The A50T if I recall does something like 35 wpc on ultralinear and less than half of that in Triode. More than enough for VR-1s but I've found for VR-2s, 50wpc or so would be where they begin to boogie down low. At 100wpc of tube power they'll play plenty loud.

Do try the leadshot, it makes the whole structure more inert and makes the bass quicker and tighter. It may get you part of the way there.

Happy Listening!

Jack

WGH · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Aug 2010, 01:05 am »

The VR2's certainly do not lack bass so other than buying a more powerful amp here are a few suggestions:

1.) Add the lead shot and the bass will tighten up.

2.) Play with the stuffing. Sometimes the Dacron falls down into the bottom chamber and can block the port. The space behind the middle speaker may be stuffed too full too. Most hardware stores sell the Torx bits needed for speaker removal.

3.) Add internal bracing and Richlite resonant control panels. Besides greatly enhancing imaging and holography the bass becomes stronger, deeper, and tighter now that the cabinet sides are not moving.

Information regarding internal bracing is here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=44748.0

Info about Richlite is here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=72808.msg683847#msg683847

Wayne

bogiedr · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 Aug 2010, 10:39 pm »

Thanks for the responses. Sounds like I made a mistake moving a vintage Adcom in favor of the Cayin

. It may be time to find that vintage Sansui power amp!

Thanks again.
Hit them straight.

WGH · « **Reply #4 on:** 3 Aug 2010, 11:36 pm »

Quote from: bogiedr on 3 Aug 2010, 10:39 pm

Sounds like I made a mistake moving a vintage Adcom in favor of the Cayin . It may be time to find that vintage Sansui power amp! Thanks again.

I wouldn't cry over loosing the Adcom, I have a still have a couple of them, an original GFA-535 and a GFA 5400 - one is used for for the surround channels in the home theater, the other is a backup. Neither amp has the holographic capability that you crave.

A vintage Sansui amp will have ancient caps so by the time you get it tuned up you will have more money in it than an amp with a guarantee. The amp that works very well with my VR2's is a Van Alstine Insight+ 440 Double, if there wasn't an open doorway between the two speakers you would swear there was a center speaker tucked away.

Check out the used equipment at the Van Alstine site, http://www.avahifi.com/, then call and talk to Frank, the owner, he is the one who usually answers the phone. You'll be glad you did. Currently there is a Omega III 400 power amplifier in excellent Dyna St-410 chassis for $595. Two hundred watts per channel, excellent AVA audio circuits, a clean Dyna St-410 chassis, and a one year parts and labor warranty on the AVA circuits.

Wayne

bogiedr · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Aug 2010, 10:38 pm »

Wayne, thanks a ton!! I appreciate your knowledge and understanding of what I want. Jack, thanks for the numbers provided, you folks have provided me some excellent options!!

WGH · « **Reply #6 on:** 5 Aug 2010, 01:36 am »

Did you see this deal on AVA equipment? You will never ever find a better deal on excellent equipment:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=83997.msg817691#msg817691

Frank Van Alstine wrote:

"I need to point out the that combination of the Insight+ 250 amplifier and the Insight+ PAT-5 would make an outstanding value and musical addition to most any system out there. These both have brand new most recent AVA circuits installed and are the musical and functional equivalents of brand new AVA Insight+ EC preamp with phono, and an Insight+ 260 amplifier.

The new price of this combination is $2647. If you were to buy these two special units (recycled chassis but brand new insides) and take advantage of the sale now in effect, the combined price would be $1819. And as a bonus, if you buy both of these units while the sale is going on, we will ship them to you free of charge in the continental USA too. You save a total of $898. !!

Note too that these two units have a new equipment three year parts and labor warranty and our 30 day satisfaction guarantee.

Act now, the used equipment is going fast."

If you don't like them send them back within 30 days - but nobody does.

Wayne

bogiedr · « **Reply #7 on:** 27 Aug 2010, 12:07 am »

So I have a bit of money to spend, thinking of moving back to SS and go Cary Audio. CAA 1 power amp, (125 watts), with matching pre amp. Anyone heard the VR2's with this combo? Another option is Marantz PM15S2 integrated, (90 watts?). Any input from the experts? I will appreciate it greatly!!! Lack of bass almost causing me to give up on VR2's.
Hit them straight!!

WGH · « **Reply #8 on:** 27 Aug 2010, 02:05 am »

Can you try out the Cary for 30 days to see if you like it?
Some people like digital amps, some don't.

Wayne

bogiedr · « **Reply #9 on:** 31 Aug 2010, 12:41 am »

Decided to go with Marantz Pearl KI-PM. Class b rating and an incredible review. Let's see what happens, 30 days to return it if it is not right! Will post after a good trial run.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #10 on:** 31 Aug 2010, 12:59 am »

I don't own your speakers. But I recognize good advice when I read it. No doubt in my mind, this has been some good advice.

bogiedr · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Sep 2010, 10:46 pm »

Well, I lied!

Did not mean to. I have been auditioning amps and have come up with altearnatives to the Marantz Pearl ... Saturday I listenend to an NAD C375BEE and was rather impressed. Anyone here have experience with this amp? Also considering the NAD M3. Price seemed very reasonable and would allow me to go with a pair of VR 33's should the VR2's not respond to 150/180 watts. Any thoughts here? I am trying to stay with VS since the holographic presence can be so amazingly haunting ... but I also do not want to keep "listening to speakers, I want to listen to the music!!!!" Makes sense? Thanks for the input!
Hit them straight!!!!

bogiedr · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Sep 2010, 02:06 am »

:|I apologise to the VR2's, added the NAD C 375BEE and holy batrays/yankees series!!!!! I remember why I thought the 2's were "magical" so I take it back! low end issue solved. I finally stopped listening to speakers, and the amp is only 3 hours old, can not wait for it to break in!!
Cheers!!

WGH · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 Sep 2010, 02:18 am »

Good to hear you got the magic back.
Enjoy.

Wayne

JackD201 · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 Sep 2010, 02:30 am »

Looks like the Bogey Doctor scored an Eagle!

bogiedr · « **Reply #15 on:** 18 Sep 2010, 02:23 am »

It feels like I posted an Eagle

It is amazing the depth added by the extra power. Now any idea how long for the NAD to be broken in? Tales of Mystery and Imagination by Alan Parsons (original vinyl) sounds incredible!!

JackD201 · « **Reply #16 on:** 18 Sep 2010, 03:58 am »

NAD is not notorious for long break-in. 50 hours or so and the sound won't be changing all that much.

bogiedr · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Oct 2010, 02:22 am »

Well, it has been long enough ... WOW!!! I just listened to Yamashta, Winwood, Shrive's "Go" and I have to say that the magic of the VR2'S is all there! The low end was amazing, the string arrangements spoke to me and the harmonies were beyond anything I have ever heard! Neil Young's "Comes a Time" was beyond belief!! "Lot of Love" was alive and "In your face, I want you to understand what I am saying" type thing. By the way, "Go" was the original 1975 run of the mill Island Records vinyl while Neil was a CD. Honestly, I have finally stopped listening to speakers and started listening to music. The 2's are literally not there, only huge sound stage and perfectly tuned low end. Glad I saved $X,XXX for the next best thing, whatever those things were I was considering. Albert, I apologize for doubting the VR2's.

bogiedr · « **Reply #18 on:** 18 Oct 2010, 12:22 am »

After further review and tweeks ... DOUBLE WOW!!! The NAD 375Bee is doing a superb job at driving the VR2's. Added some Auralex acoustic treatments this weekend and my wife is impressed! Especially listening to Rennaissance's "Scheharazade". Monk, Miles, B.B., Coltrane, Oregon, name it, they all sound incredible!!! Even Chicago 7 was simply awesome! The Stones "Give me shelter" was amazing. Glad I did not throw them into Tampa Bay from the Skyway!!

JackD201 · « **Reply #19 on:** 18 Oct 2010, 08:14 am »

Have you loaded them with lead shot yet?