Tube dampers

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newzooreview

Tube dampers
« on: 31 Jul 2010, 10:02 pm »
Back in the 1986 Audio Basics newsletter, page 15, Frank liked the results of using tube dampers on AVA preamps (but the dampers in question were sorbothane and tended to melt, so he stopped carrying them). (Full text below for reference)

I ran across a different type of tube damper that shouldn't suffer from the melting problem that the sorbothane had: http://herbiesaudiolab.net/rx.htm

Has anyone tried these or something similar with AVA amps or preamps? Useful? Recommended?

Quote
The Tube Dampers are very clever. You simply slip one over each signal tube in your vacuum tube preamplifier (they are not for power output or rectifier tubes) and they “remove” a layer of extraneous “haze” that you didn’t even know was there. We did a quick A-B with a new Super Pas Two and really like the results. The sorbothane ring around the tubes damps out mechanical vibrations generated by the tubes themselves and makes the preamp run quieter and clearer. These little guys will cost you $12.00 for a set of four (all you need for a Super Pas Two) and we would have to say, based upon our first listen, is that we highly recommend that you get them. We are going to stock them, but for now you can order them directly from Audioquest. [1990 Note: The most recent batch of Tube Dampers we used tended to melt on the tubes in the preamp - not a pretty sight. I don't know if they have changed the mix or if our current 12AX7A tubes run a bit hotter, but we are not using the dampers any more.]

ricmon

Re: Tube dampers
« Reply #1 on: 2 Aug 2010, 04:47 pm »
I haven't tried those but the "audiofool" technique is to go down to your local auto parts store and get rubber "O" rings.  They are so cheap you can use 3 or 4 per tube.

happy listening
Ric

turkey

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Re: Tube dampers
« Reply #2 on: 2 Aug 2010, 05:29 pm »
I just dunk the entire tube preamp into epoxy. It cures all those problems with microphonics. I use opaque epoxy too, so I don't have any stray photons leaking in or out and screwing up the sound.

Brett Buck

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Re: Tube dampers
« Reply #3 on: 2 Aug 2010, 05:34 pm »
I haven't tried those but the "audiofool" technique is to go down to your local auto parts store and get rubber "O" rings.  They are so cheap you can use 3 or 4 per tube.

    I would be very concerned that they would melt. Plumbing o-rings only have to take 140 deg, max. Silicone would be fine, regular old neoprene or Buna-N, I don't think so.

     Brett

Wayner

Re: Tube dampers
« Reply #4 on: 2 Aug 2010, 05:36 pm »
I haven't tried those but the "audiofool" technique is to go down to your local auto parts store and get rubber "O" rings.  They are so cheap you can use 3 or 4 per tube.

happy listening
Ric

If you are going to do this, I suggest the O-rings be made of pure silicone to withstand the constant heat. Neoprene or other materials will degrade quickly.

Wayner

turkey

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Re: Tube dampers
« Reply #5 on: 2 Aug 2010, 05:44 pm »
Why not just run a bead of hi-temp RTV around the tube?

Listens2tubes

Re: Tube dampers
« Reply #6 on: 2 Aug 2010, 05:46 pm »
A while back I asked Frank about the silicone O-rings and he felt they should be fine. Still there nothing that will quiet a truely microphonic tube. Like when a turntable ground wire with spade termination taps the rack and you hear it in from the speakers as a muffled thud. :o Ah the fun of tube rolling. :lol:

Wayner

Re: Tube dampers
« Reply #7 on: 2 Aug 2010, 06:10 pm »
Why not just run a bead of hi-temp RTV around the tube?

If you must.... I like it! Reminds me of the older job. Without RTV Silicone, we were basically screwed.
And you guys thought it was just for enhancement.

 :thumb:

gjs_cds

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Re: Tube dampers
« Reply #8 on: 2 Aug 2010, 06:11 pm »
If they're not sprinkled with magic audio pixie dust and cost hundreds of dollars, then I'm not interested.

MapleShade sells such a product that might work.  It's just a thick tube cut to size, while having the proper diameter...
...update...i guess they don't sell tube dampers anymore.  One can only speculate as to why...

The guy does good recordings though!

turkey

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Re: Tube dampers
« Reply #9 on: 2 Aug 2010, 07:21 pm »
If you must.... I like it! Reminds me of the older job. Without RTV Silicone, we were basically screwed.
And you guys thought it was just for enhancement.

 :thumb:

I figure it would work better because it actually adheres to the glass.


yeldarb

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Re: Tube dampers
« Reply #10 on: 2 Aug 2010, 07:27 pm »
If you haven't tried Herbie's dampers, you don't know what you are missing.
I ordered some years ago, for my 4i, with the thought that I'd be sending them back.  The benefits were so obvious and immediate that I was shocked.  A quieter (blacker) background is the biggest benefit and everthing (especially bass) seems to be "tighter". 

I now also have Herbie's on my Norh SE9 (TV system), on all the tubes, including the rectifier.  I installed them a stage at a time and there was an improvement.  If he still has the return guarantee, what do you have to lose?  And he will help you decide which will work best in your application.

TheChairGuy

Re: Tube dampers
« Reply #11 on: 2 Aug 2010, 07:34 pm »
The Herbie's tube dampers are neat...I use 'em, but not sure if they improve the sound or merely change it in a way that's mostly preferable to me (and most others that seem to have tried it)

Silicone is messy and too permanent a fix.

However, buying $5 in rope caulk gets you most of the same 'benefit' I've found....and is temporary of you want.  The $5 package will 'damp' probably 20,000 tubes :o

It's usually marketed under the Mortite or Dennis names in many hardware stores.  It's clay, unlike plasticlay modelling clay (that has plastic that can melt quickly if used on tubes)

Just make a thin, dime sized bit in your hands....and lay that on top of your tube and press down(let the nipple poke out).  I've yet to find early tube failure from it - there's more than enough tube left to blow off the hot air around.  The rope caulk is tacky so it's sticks fine...but can be removed if you wish later (after the tube has cooled off)

Ace Hardware seems to sell it so it's about as close as your neighborhood Hardware Store: http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/%28zekpqv55zloho245rqdqeh55%29/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=52516

Sometimes it leaves a little residue if you remove it...some Goo Gone or other liquid spirits will do the trick :)

Try it - it's cheap and you will probably (but by no means absolutely) like it as I do  :)

John

turkey

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Re: Tube dampers
« Reply #12 on: 2 Aug 2010, 07:42 pm »
The guy does good recordings though!

I am continually amazed at how good some of his recordings are, considering the tweako stuff he pushes.


ricmon

Re: Tube dampers
« Reply #13 on: 2 Aug 2010, 07:44 pm »
    I would be very concerned that they would melt. Plumbing o-rings only have to take 140 deg, max. Silicone would be fine, regular old neoprene or Buna-N, I don't think so.

     Brett

"auto parts store" was the operative part of the post.  If they can withstand the heat in an car (or truck) engine I think they can withstand the heat from a vacuum tube.

Ric