Bi-Wiring

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skunark

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Re: Bi-Wiring
« Reply #40 on: 2 Aug 2010, 12:32 am »
Bi-wiring will only theoretically be a benefit when drivers distort and linearity is no longer maintained (non-linear).

With sufficient voltage a driver can deviate from ideal linearity so the current in that connection between the low output impedance of the amplifier and the woofer (in this case), will carry harmonic distortion components which can create intermodulation products. In a simple non-bi-wire situation, the tweeter driver terminals will see these distortion components through the speakers (low to zero) impedance straps (when a single non bi-wire set of cables is used).

The theoretical advantage is now valid if you assume a set of bi-wire speaker cables has some finite impedance (obviously, the longer the cables, the more pronounced the effects will be). When bi-wire cables are used rather than single wires with straps, the distortion components (caused by the woofer driver) will have a lower impedance path to the amplifiers low output impedance sink, rather than travel back and down the tweeters speaker cable.

Yes, it's a small advantage and you could argue that the tweeters crossover would help to reduce the problem, but I suppose you could argue that the harmonic and intermodulation products will be at a higher frequency and may pass through to the tweeter driver.

The entire advantage is gained by asking this question. From the perspective of the woofer driver terminals, which is the lower impedance path to the tweeters driver terminals? Is it a set of straps in a non bi-wire situation, or is it the route of a set of bi-wire cables that has a theoretical ideal voltage source (amplifiers low output impedance) in the path?.......... The answer is the bi-wire configuration.

Unfortunately, the benefit would be about the same result as attempting to slow your car down by putting your  hand out the window? I doubt anyone could hear the benefits of bi-wiring, but the theory is there to prove it works.

brucek

The distortion path still exist whether it's bi-wired, tri-wired or not.. it's just a matter of it taking a few more feet to hit low/high pass filters.  Only way to fully disconnect the paths is to bi-amp.

vegasdave

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Re: Bi-Wiring
« Reply #41 on: 2 Aug 2010, 12:58 am »
I did. In my case the answer was "no".

Nap.

Thanks, man.

Napalm

Re: Bi-Wiring
« Reply #42 on: 2 Aug 2010, 01:34 am »
The distortion path still exist whether it's bi-wired, tri-wired or not.. it's just a matter of it taking a few more feet to hit low/high pass filters.  Only way to fully disconnect the paths is to bi-amp.

The "distortion" introduced by your power and speaker cables (of decent gauge) is completely negligible when compared to what they do in the studio during recording/mixing/mastering. I wouldn't loose sleep over it.

Nap.

brucek

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Re: Bi-Wiring
« Reply #43 on: 2 Aug 2010, 02:52 am »
Quote from: skunark
The distortion path still exist whether it's bi-wired, tri-wired or not.. it's just a matter of it taking a few more feet to hit low/high pass filters.

The lower impedance path for distortion components would be to ground through the output transistors of the amplifier.

Quote from: etcarroll
but if I got it, to paraphrase - the improvement in bass I heard in the biwired speaker may be more the result of the removal of the strap and replacing 16ga. wire with 12 ga. vs. the 'theoretical' chance of improved sound that biwiring might provide.

I would say so.

Quote
What do you do for work?

Retired after thirty-two years as an electronics engineering technologist.

brucek

skunark

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Re: Bi-Wiring
« Reply #44 on: 3 Aug 2010, 06:09 am »
The lower impedance path for distortion components would be to ground through the output transistors of the amplifier.

Whether you saw the reflection on the positive or the negative side of the speaker, this distortion would still make it's way back to the amp and to the other speaker when you bi-wire.  Yes, the amp will resolve the refection so you won't see it go "through" the output transistors, but it will still, via solid connection of the bi-wire, hit the second speaker almost identical to the jumper.   Of course the second speaker will still have the same filter circuit to cancel out the reflection.   


Robert D

Re: Bi-Wiring
« Reply #45 on: 3 Aug 2010, 12:03 pm »
The distortion path still exist whether it's bi-wired, tri-wired or not.. it's just a matter of it taking a few more feet to hit low/high pass filters.  Only way to fully disconnect the paths is to bi-amp.

My Speaker Cables are AudioQuest Type 8 
Cable lengths are 27ft even

There may be even more Impact on the Quality of the soundstage

Robert

brucek

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Re: Bi-Wiring
« Reply #46 on: 3 Aug 2010, 12:31 pm »
... hit the second speaker almost identical to the jumper.

Almost identical is correct, and that's the small theoretical advantage of bi-wiring. The cables present a non-zero impedance, usually much more than a set of straps. If you assume the amplifier as an ideal voltage source, and the cables having finite impedance, and the distortion from a woofer creating harmonics high enough to pass a tweeters crossover filter, then bi-wiring can have a theoretical advantage. It's an extremely small advantage. Any benefit realized from bi-wiring is usually the result of lower impedance.

brucek

Robert D

Re: Bi-Wiring
« Reply #47 on: 3 Aug 2010, 12:37 pm »
Thanks brucek  :thumb:


Robert


etcarroll

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Re: Bi-Wiring
« Reply #48 on: 14 Aug 2010, 03:21 am »
Wired up one speaker with Supra Rondo 4x4.0, a nice cable with 4 leads of 11 ga.

The biwired speaker sounds so much more 'alive' than the speaker traditionally wired with 16 ga. Monoprice speaker wire and jumper cables.

vegasdave

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Re: Bi-Wiring
« Reply #49 on: 14 Aug 2010, 03:40 am »
Wired up one speaker with Supra Rondo 4x4.0, a nice cable with 4 leads of 11 ga.

The biwired speaker sounds so much more 'alive' than the speaker traditionally wired with 16 ga. Monoprice speaker wire and jumper cables.

Thanks for your report.

Robert D

Re: Bi-Wiring
« Reply #50 on: 14 Aug 2010, 11:55 am »
Wired up one speaker with Supra Rondo 4x4.0, a nice cable with 4 leads of 11 ga.

The biwired speaker sounds so much more 'alive' than the speaker traditionally wired with 16 ga. Monoprice speaker wire and jumper cables.

Perfect .....

Thanks for the feedback 

Robert

Robert D

Re: Bi-Wiring
« Reply #51 on: 26 Feb 2011, 01:38 pm »
I know that this topic has been discuss a million time,but i just want to know what are the benefits of Internal bi-wiring and True bi-wiring.My apology for bringing up this debatable topic again.

JayMc

Take a look here..  I'm sure all of your answers to your questions are here.

Robert