[BrysTony]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

So it really comes down to the 'buyer' and his 'needs' or 'wants' have changed and any company that wants to stay in business will have to adapt?

james

This is an interesting thread.  The economy has created challenging management issues for many companies struggling to stay in business.  As business became tougher for the traditional audio dealer he was forced to decrease inventories -- product on the floor for listening became limited and product for immediate purchase disappeared.  Consequently, value added for the customer was minimal and customers were lost to the internet and the big box stores.

I have been in the market for new speakers and had decided that I wanted a pair of Thiel 2.4s; however, I just found out that the price has been increased from $5100/pr to $6100.  Why a 20% price increase on a product that has been around for 6-7 years-- certainly not due to material and labor cost increases in the current economy?  I see from a post above that Thiel is now selling some of their product on Amazon.  Jim Thiel's most unfortunate passing left the company with a dearth of management and design expertise and I suspect that the company is in serious trouble.

My wants and needs as a customer have not changed but it is certainly becoming harder to fulfill those needs.  I do not want to see Bryston and other high end products at Best Buy but it would be nice to see them somewhere...

Tony

[jaxwired]

Hi Folks,

I think one of the salient questions that needs to be asked is ‘why are the traditional high quality audio dealers not being supported by a large enough customer base to stay in business?’

james

This is pretty simple.  The market shrunk over a period of 20 years.  It's now pretty much leveled off and this is the new real market size for high end audio products.  This new smaller market size is not big enough to support brick and mortar stores except in a very few specific atypical cities (LA, NYC for example).  The audio industry has been in denial of this because the home theater boom allowed them to ignore the obvious market shift.  Now, even that has mostly dried up.  The old larger market size is never coming back as those dollars are now owned by many other industries.  However, this new smaller market size IS big enough to keep companies like Bryston in business, but only the companies smart enough to adapt to the new market will survive.  You absolutely must market via the internet to reach the very geographically diverse customers.  You also must provide new marketing strategies that are mail order friendly like 30 day home trials.  You must lower prices as the 50% retail markup is inappropriate for internet sales.  You must allow free market pricing for authorized internet dealers.  That's the future whether you like it or not.

[VOLKS]

I think they look awesome 

Be well...

I agree

[Bemopti123]

What I cannot stand are companies that claim "materials cost is up" therefore they need to increase the price on all their lines from 15-25%.  I will not question the validity of commodities going up but by 25%?  I only see it as a way of jacking up prices without giving any added value to the consumer end. 

Perhaps before they do this, they should consider trimming expenses elsewhere but it is insulting to be in the consumer end bearing the brunt of such hikes. 

Maybe the manufacturer is trying to sustain their retailers as the sales are dropping off but in the end, the consumers either catch up or are fed up with having to put up with it. 

Moreover, these incredible MSRP that seem valid for products whose country of origin are in Europe and the North America having the same MSRP in both Euros and in USD....  A loudspeaker made in the UK that cost 1500 euros costs like $2500 USD.... and the Euro is just 25% higher.  The shipping costs would need to be added but the tariffs are negligible and someone has the gall to go and charge almost $800 for shipping expenses?   The same occurs for North American products in Europe.  Someone thinks consumers are stupid. 

In order to escape the greed that is so prevalent in the industry, I had used such tactics as "importing" demos from overseas...and still with the incredibly expensive Air shipping, I wound up get these not so widely available UK made monitors for about $800 LESS than what the US distributor was asking me.

Some manufacturers have gone great lengths into explaining the rise in prices etc....  I do not buy it but it seems to me that the average consumer cares not that he/she is paying $450 for something made with inferior parts, quality in a factory in the Far East while the same company use to make something not as flashy, with better materials in Garment district in Manhattan for about $250.  The really played out motto repeated often "The shift of manufacturing overseas has given the US consumer more choices, better quality at cheaper prices." Lying in front of customers is not something that can continue for a long time without consequences.   

[avahifi]

B&W must not be doing too badly or they would not be able to afford to sponsor an IROD  Indy Racing League race car.

I do wonder however how the ears of their designers and engineers are doing after wandering around the pit lanes all day. 

Best regards,

Frank Van Alstine

[Robert D]

A Pair of 28B'S would be Perfect to Drive these Babies 800D'S


and a Few Bonus Points

Robert

Conclusion
 

These are expensive speakers, regardless of how much more expensive others may be. You have to be prepared to add to the expense by spending money on some serious power, because you won’t know how good they are if you don’t. You also absolutely need to try a variety of amps and cables with the 800D’s because they respond very audibly to changes in those other components.

 

Finally, you must be prepared to spend time with little positioning tweaks to get the optimal placement, and that isn’t easy with 275 pounds of speaker. If you aren’t prepared to do these things you may never know what they can do. However, if you do they will reward you with absolutely terrific music, with detail, smooth treble extension, soundstaging, depth, PRAT, slam, muscular bass and a sense of intimacy that belies their size.

 

I’ve had several really great speakers come through my listening room, and some have tempted me with superior bass (and I’m a sucker for great bass) or superior transparency or some other isolated quality, but I haven’t yet found anything with a better overall performance in my system. It’s going to take a really serious pair of speakers to displace my B&W 800D.




 

 

[Robert D]

If anybody is interested here is the review on the 800D’S

http://www.dagogo.com/View-Article.asp?hArticle=137


Regards Robert

[mfsoa]

Heard the new 805 diamond the other day.

Not broken in or set up properly but I could tell that the tweeter is fab.

-Mike

[Napalm]

You also absolutely need to try a variety of amps and cables with the 800D’s because they respond very audibly to changes in those other components.

Isn't this the hallmark of a poorly designed crossover? Or a poor overall design that pushes the impedance to the extremes?

Nap.

[Construct]

My favorites are the 800 and 802d.  I have been to a display or two where they are set up in too small a room with NO treatment. It was like listening in a phone booth.

[Robert D]

Yes Sir !
 

Robert

[Robert D]

My favorites are the 800 and 802d.  I have been to a display or two where they are set up in too small a room with NO treatment. It was like listening in a phone booth.

Yes Sir

Robert

[Napalm]

I think they look awesome

You punk!

Nap. 

[Laundrew]

You punk!

Nap. 

 

Be well...

[Laundrew]

A Pair of 28B'S would be Perfect to Drive these Babies 800D'S


Robert

In a perfect world, my 28's would be driving a pair of these beasties 



be well...

[Zero]

Congrats to B&W.  I just hope that this move wont burn the dealers who spent decades building up the name and keeping them in business.

[Napalm]

In a perfect world, my 28's would be driving a pair of these beasties 

[JBL Everest pic]

be well...

Agree. They have properly sized woofers.

Ever noticed how speakers with about 15" bass drivers don't abruptly dip in impedance in the bass region?

Nap. 

[Construct]

Agree. They have properly sized woofers.

Ever noticed how speakers with about 15" bass drivers don't abruptly dip in impedance in the bass region?

Nap. 

The B&W faithful may agree or disagree with this.  My take is nothing new, it has been stated as long as the 801 model has been available.  I personally feel that the 801's were voiced for a very large room to play classical music.  I wasn't that impressed with rock, techno or any music with a quicker percussion or bassline.  That's why I prefer the 800/802 as superior all-arounders.  I would much prefer a system with the 802 + a sub for versatility.  That would be able to capture the orchestral weight, and also the faster music types.
My .02 pence.

[Laundrew]

I agree

Let us not forget about the 207/2's 

Be well...

[srb]

Let us not forget about the 207/2's

Yes, the KEF 207/2's deliver terrific music, with detail, smooth treble extension, soundstaging, depth, PRAT, slam, muscular bass and a sense of intimacy that belies their size.
 
Steve