Recommendations for tubes for Mapletree Audio Ultra 4A SE preamp

Alexdad54 · « **on:** 6 Jul 2010, 07:22 pm »

I have gone over the archived threads here but I'd be interested in getting opinions on what tubes anyone is currently using for their Mapletree Audio Ultra's.

I'm not sure as well on two other aspects: 1) does changing the rectifier tube in the power source change the sound at all and 2) do I change the 4 tubes ( currently the stock pairs of 12SN7GT's and 12SC7's) in the preamp section with four matched tubes or 2 sets of two different pairs and, if the latter, which types??
Appreciate all ideas.

JimJ · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 Jul 2010, 08:34 pm »

Yes, changing the rectifier tube does have an effect, IMO.

I'd look on Ebay for NOS ones...they're cheap enough that you can roll a few and hear what changes

rklein · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Jul 2010, 09:13 pm »

First off, you are confusing me... I have owned a Mapletree Ultra 4A SE preamp and the preamp has only two tubes, not four. You can either use a 6SN7 or a 12SN7 tube. I bought a pair of NOS Sylvania 12SN7 tubes from Andy at Vintage Tubes and it was a step up from the stock tubes that Dr. Peppard supplies. You should also look into changing out the umbilical cable that connects the power supply to the preamp. Chris Hoff builds a killer cable for under $100 that in my opinion kills the stock cable. You can read about this cable here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=74796.0

Hope this helps,

Randy

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 Jul 2010, 09:48 pm »

Quote from: rklein on 6 Jul 2010, 09:13 pm

I have owned a Mapletree Ultra 4A SE preamp and the preamp has only two tubes, not four.

http://hollowstate.netfirms.com/

Alexdad54 · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 12:19 am »

Yep, it does have 4 as per the link that Ericus Rex provided. Two are metal sided so they don't really look like classic valves. Thanks for the tip on the Sylvania's though, I"ll get in touch with Andy. My questions still remain though, do I change both pairs? Also any tips for different rectifiers? I saw a Mullard EZ35 recommended but can't seem to find any.

Re the umbilical, I had Grover Huffman make me a custom one for about $40, so far I'm very pleased with it but I may order the other just to compare.

rklein · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 12:32 am »

My mistake!!!! I need to read the original post more carefully. I thought you were only looking to change out the 12SN7's

I never looked into changing out the 12SC7's. I know that Topround had a couple of tricked out Ultra 4a's. Maybe he could chime in on the 12SC7's.

Randy

drphoto · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 03:35 am »

Those 12SC7s are a bit of a odd duck. My stockers are noisy. I've got a pair coming from 'thetubestore', w/ no brand listed on site.

Yeah, they're strange looking. You'd think they're big caps at first.

I don't believe you can just sub in a 12SN7 or 12SX7 for them, as I believe they're wired differently, but I don't know much about circuit design.

Vintage Tube Supply doesn't list them. Kevin Deal doesn't have any.

I've got an outboard SS phono pre standing by, but I'm hoping tubes w/ solve the problem and I can send it back unopened for a full refund.

Alexdad54 · « **Reply #7 on:** 8 Jul 2010, 03:09 pm »

Quote from: JimJ on 6 Jul 2010, 08:34 pm

Yes, changing the rectifier tube does have an effect, IMO.

I'd look on Ebay for NOS ones...they're cheap enough that you can roll a few and hear what changes

Hi Jim,
I took a quick look on ebay (and in fact, bid and lost on a Mullard EZ35) but there are a lot of brands. Do you have any advice/suggestions as to the better brands?
thanks,
Dave

drphoto · « **Reply #8 on:** 13 Jul 2010, 04:53 am »

As per my other post, the Tung-Sol SC7's I got from thetubestore.com worked out nicely. They are dead quiet. And they were around $6.50/ea. Can't beat that!

The little MAD pre is a killer unit for the money. As one of the reviews said, it is more of an 'old school' sound, favoring musicality over absolute truth. I like it, considering the rest of my gear. It will be with me for a long time, I'm sure.

Alexdad54 · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Jul 2010, 01:55 pm »

Thanks for the info unfortunately the tubestore.com doesn't seem to have any more Tung Sol 12sc7's in stock. I did find this ebay listing: http://cgi.ebay.it/12SC7-two-2-Tung-Sol-vacuum-tubes-tested-12SC7-sb-6SC7-/230480030572
I guess these would do?

drphoto · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 Jul 2010, 01:02 am »

Dunno, I guess so.

BTW: I didn't see any option to spec the tube brand when I ordered from thetubestore. I just wanted to try anything to see if tubes were my source of noise, or if I needed a dedicated phono pre.

Maybe I just got lucky. I said these are dead quiet. but at max gain there is some noise, both low rumbly stuff and hiss. But at normal gain, they are fine.

I might try as many vendors as I can and get some other samples to try. These tubes are cheap, they're just damn hard to find.

I'll let you know if I run across something.

Oh, since I wrote that, I ran a google and found a place called the tubedepot. They didn't list brands, so I sent 'em an email. Again, I'll keep you posted.

drphoto · « **Reply #11 on:** 20 Jul 2010, 03:51 am »

Hey MAD 4SE fans, I sent an email to a place called the 'tubedepot'. The replied and say they have RCA, Sylvania, Raytheon and Ken-Rad (?) 12 SC7 for $5.95/ea. I may order up several of each. My Tung-Sol seem ok, but at those prices, it would be fun to see.

drphoto · « **Reply #12 on:** 29 Jul 2010, 02:54 am »

Ok, got the tubes from tubedepot. Unfortunately, I asked for a pair ea of the RCA, Sylvania and Raytheon. I got one Raytheon and and a Ken-Rad, plus a pair each of the other two.

I'd found that my Tung-Sol's were still giving me some rumbly low end noise and hiss (w/out disk playing) so I were in search of something even more quiet. (It's not 60hz hum, much lower frequency than that.)

First up, the RCA. Total loser. More rumble and they rang like a church bell if you even barely tapped on the tube.

Next, Sylvania. Best of the bunch so far. Almost no hiss, very low rumble level. Still there, but lowest of all so far. Very good on 'tap' test. Haven't listened to music yet, this was just a preliminary test for noise.

Didn't try the others for obvious reason.

OK. Had to post an update. Finally got to spin some records. The Sylvania is the clear winner here. The improved S/N ratio for one makes a big difference. Plus it is the most detailed. And the most holographic image. Might be a bit clinical sounding right now, but they're brand new, I suppose tubes need to run in a bit. But not a warm and fuzzy tube sound. Me likey......so far.

sanraal · « **Reply #13 on:** 1 Aug 2010, 05:54 pm »

Hi,

I own a Mapletree 4SE pre-amp and I agree its an absolute steal at its price. An amazing phono-amp especially if you plan to use it with a musical MM cart like a Grado or an AudioNote IQ.

Ive recently got hold of some new 12SC7's from various sources, some RCA, Sylvania, some rebranded GE's (Marconi's) Im planning to do more some tube rolling on the phono stage tubes when I have some more time. From what Ive done so far Ive found the opposite! The RCA's that Ive got are as quiet as a mouse, very little ringing or hum (I do listen on headphones however so acoustic feedback is not a big issue)

I use Russian 6SN7's - these are phenominal and great value too, they are marked as 1578 and have metal bases, as well as holes in the plates - a different looking tube but so much more airy and open than the RCA JAN 12SX7GT or 5692 I was using prior.

I tried some tube rolling on the rectifier, personally I didnt hear any big difference. Im using a RCA JAN 6X5GT

Alexdad54 · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Aug 2010, 01:39 pm »

great info from all! I found a Mullard EZ35 rectifier on ebay but had to buy a bunch of others with it though so if anyone's interested I can post a list.....I'm looking at getting a pair of RCA NOS 12SX7's as they seem to be the favorite of many. The Mapletree Branches newsletter #1 also recommended them.

sanraal · « **Reply #15 on:** 17 Aug 2010, 09:03 pm »

Ive done some tube rolling and found the Sylvania 12SC7's are a good match with this amp to my ears. They offer plenty of omph in the bottom end.

The RCA tubes were very quiet but didnt sound as musical as the Sylvania offering.

drphoto · « **Reply #16 on:** 20 Aug 2010, 11:35 pm »

Yeah, I'm running Sylvania for both tube types and really like 'em.

I suspect that w/ NOS tubes there is a wide range of tolerences. The RCA 12Sc7's I tried were very microphonic, but sanraal didn't find that true in his experience. While brands of tubes may have a 'house' flavor, I'm guessing real world performance depends a bit on luck of the draw.

I'm not new to tubes, I had CJ gear years ago, but am new to tube rolling. I just ran the supplied Sovteks then, as I didn't know that it made a difference.

ProCast99 · « **Reply #17 on:** 2 Dec 2011, 04:06 am »

Hi all:

Just thought I'd chime in with some of my tube rolling experience - I had phenomenal, detailed sound with a pair of RCA grey-glass vt231s (6SN7's), and subsequently bought a pair of RCA grey-glass 12SN7s from Andy Bowman, and though not quite as stunning as my friend's VT231s, they are very lovely-sounding in this preamp.

Just to do some exploring, I called Andy back, and ordered two sets of "perfect pickes" 6SN7s (they also can go in my amp) - I got a pair of 1940s Sylvanias and '50s Tungsols. Both were superb. The Sylvania's I especially like, though the more "solid" or "muscular" sound of the Tung Sols was pretty awesome too. In this day of very expensive NOS offerings, I'd recommend Andy's "perfect picks" (slightly used tubes for 1/2 price) as a source of tube-rolling pleasure.

Does anyone have a current production favourite? I'd like to try one to hear the difference (if any!) between the NOS and current production tubes.

oh, yeah - I swapped out the RCA rectifier with a Brimar - which did have an effect in my system - brought the details more to the 'front' of the sound, as opposed to sounding farther away. I like it very much...

sanraal · « **Reply #18 on:** 1 Jun 2012, 12:52 pm »

Thought I would share some tweaks I've put on my Ultra 4SE over the past year.

My plan was to improve the MM phono stage and to this end I had Dr Lloyd replace the 12sc7 sockets with 12ax7. This was to my ears a night and day improvement in clarity, putting in the Sovtek 12AX7LPS works wonders, something more pricey like a pair of NOS RCA 12AX7 are fantastic.

Ive also had the JJ electrolytic in the PSU chassis replaced with Mundorf polyprops and have adapted a CRCRC arrangement over the original CRC design. The 100u cap off the 6x5 was rather abusive so running a 30u off that with 2 x 100u. This along with some small bypass caps on the electrolytics in the main chassis has dropped the noise floor nicely.

Are any other members here still rolling tubes in their 4SE's? Currently have PSVANE 12AX7 and Shugaung CV181's in mine. I had the 7812 regulator in the PSU uprated to 1.5A so I may brave some ECC32 one day, the plate voltage should still be in spec! ~200V

~On the rectifier front the Brimar 6X5 sounds magical in the PSU section, the Sylvania 6X5W (gold) didnt sound as great. anyone try the EZ80 at all with an adapter?

MaxCast · « **Reply #19 on:** 1 Jun 2012, 06:36 pm »

I have the Mapletree 2se and am also using the Shugaung CV181's. I like them quite a bit.