[Construct]

I also think that one of the reasons that we come under fire from a lot of people in the general population (read as not audiophiles/musicphiles), is that music to them is more of a condiment of life rather then a main dish.

Most people that I know of listen to music at certain times; in the car, while at a club, or while they workout, etc, etc, etc. Music is not the focus when they are listening to it; its just an environmental stimuli.   

I don't know anyone else personally that just puts on music and sits there and listens to it for hours at a time like I do. So, establishing a system that costs tens of thousands of dollars for this purpose seems completely silly to these people.

Nothing turns the average person off faster than the super-uptight, snobbish audiophile type.  You know the type that makes snide comments and sniffs at anything considered less-than-perfect.  "Oh heavens, when will you upgrade?"  That type of pinky-extended, chest-puffing caviar-and-XO cognac attitude alienates people.  It makes them say "I never want to be like that!"  Hyper-obsessive behavior with anything is unjustifiable to most people. That is especially true if it comes with arrogance.

[werd]

Snobby behaviour is one thing, but having to paddle up stream against all the anti cable, you don`t need to spend much money  on this or all (amps,sources,etc) sounds the same crap from so called audio enthusiasts is far worse. That attitude rubs off on the general public and i think is the main reason why we get so much flak from people who don`t take this hobby seriousily.

[Construct]

Snobby behaviour is one thing, but having to paddle up stream against all the anti cable, you don`t need to spend much money  on this or all (amps,sources,etc) sounds the same crap from so called audio enthusiast is far worse. That attitude rubs off on the general public and i think is the main reason why we get so much flak from people who don`t take this hobby seriousily.

The luddites (maybe that's not correct but it's close)  do have this prevailing attitude that it all sound the same.  I remember a guy that raved about how much clearer and better his bose am-5's sounded than a full system with Kef 105.2's. There are some people that simply can't (or won't)  hear the difference between thump/sizzle and clarity or mp3 and analog. I know a number of them.  As far as they are concerned, 320k mp3 with skull candy earphones is as good as it gets. 

[werd]

The luddites (maybe that's not correct but it's close)  do have this prevailing attitude that it all sound the same.  I remember a guy that raved about how much clearer and better his bose am-5's sounded than a full system with Kef 105.2's. There are some people that simply can't (or won't)  hear the difference between thump/sizzle and clarity or mp3 and analog. I know a number of them.  As far as they are concerned, 320k mp3 with skull candy earphones is as good as it gets.

yah i know, we got them on here.. sigh

[srb]

I remember a guy that raved about how much clearer and better his bose am-5's sounded than a full system with Kef 105.2's.  As far as they are concerned, 320k mp3 with skull candy earphones is as good as it gets.

But the ironic thing is that they are generally quite content with their music systems, and so many audio hobbyists are not.  Why deny them the level of pleasure they have attained?
 
I try not to burst anyone's already happy bubble, although If I detect some major defects in their system, such as a particular speaker driver(s) not actually working or the speakers being out of phase, I might point that out.
 
Steve

[Construct]

But the ironic thing is that they are generally quite content with their music systems, and so many audio hobbyists are not.  Why deny them the level of pleasure they have attained?
 
I try not to burst anyone's already happy bubble, although If I detect some major defects in their system, such as a particular speaker driver(s) not actually working or the speakers being out of phase, I might point that out.
 
Steve

That's not a bad approach-to point out something that wasn't working.  I actually reconnected a guys tweeter that the clips fell off after he moved.  He didn't notice until I reconnected it.."Oh geeze...that's better!".  At the same time, the former part of your post:  I don't think it's ever a good idea to slam someone to their face over something they obviously enjoy.

[Phil A]

But the ironic thing is that they are generally quite content with their music systems, and so many audio hobbyists are not.  Why deny them the level of pleasure they have attained?
 
I try not to burst anyone's already happy bubble, although If I detect some major defects in their system, such as a particular speaker driver(s) not actually working or the speakers being out of phase, I might point that out.
 
Steve

It's the same here.  I'm happy to help someone enjoy what they have.  I helped someone not long ago set levels on a receiver with his Bose double cubes.  He was thrilled and I don't feel the need to look down on someone else's choice with their budget and preferences.

I think more than the snobbery side there are many on home theater forums (and I am an administrator on home) who adequate home theater set-up to reproduction of music in a quality 2-channel system.  There is a need to bash and convince others of their views and label many if not most things are snake oil.  They may have a drop of engineering knowledge (vs. real world experience - kind of like a pre-med student who has read one chapter on brain surgery - does not make them a brain surgeon and I don' t want them operating on me ) and it makes them feel important with the masses, who have less knowledge than most, that their views are sustained.  I guess it gives them a feeling of importance. 

Many people I know are not audiophiles.  I make no effort to convert them and am always happy to help them use their systems the way they want to.  I feel sorry for the people who leave with the wrong impression based on inadequate knowledge presented by others.  It hurts sales for those who might be more interested and spreads misinformation even further.  There are enough mass market companies with advertising/marketing that can mislead the public.  More of this is not better.

[Napalm]

Nothing turns the average person off faster than the super-uptight, snobbish audiophile type.  You know the type that makes snide comments and sniffs at anything considered less-than-perfect.  [...] That type of pinky-extended, chest-puffing caviar-and-XO cognac attitude alienates people. 

This conspicuously sounds like a description of the Stereophile folks.

Nap 

[werd]

But now we are talking about their leisure approach on gear and not our hobby.

[Construct]

This conspicuously sounds like a description of the Stereophile folks.

Nap 

I apologize for not addressing this sooner:  I thought I saw you had ATC speakers somewhere.  I did have some SCM-12's.  I regret selling them, and not getting larger ATC's.  Power hungry little suckers...but amazingly revealing.  I'd say they are at least on par with a 320k mp3 playing through some bose am5's! 

[jaxwired]

As far as they are concerned, 320k mp3 with skull candy earphones is as good as it gets.

I've got what I would call a "high end" system (it's really more of a "high zen" system), BUT I also often listen to music in 256kbs via some nice $100 phiaton earbuds.  I've been an audiophile since the mid 1980's and I can sure as hell tell quality equipment from rubbish and to my ears an iPod playing 256k and my phiaton earbuds sounds pretty excellent.  In fact, it sounds way way less distorted and clean than any boom box that teens from my youth listened to. 

I've got a pair of high end headphones, AKG K702s and a nice headphone amp as well.  Playing CDs through that system is sublime and the iPod is inferior, but the iPod is still  shockingly good and highly entertaining.  I don't look down on anyone that is happy with it.  I could be happy with it myself if I didn't have the luxury of better. 

I think there's a lot of misguided hype regarding this issue by the audiophile community.  It's really a bit of a shame because the audiophile hobby is a dinosaur.  Look around at the next 2 channel audio show you go to.  Bunch of really old dudes my friend.  Where's the only growth demographic in the hobby?  Head-fi.  Where do head-fi enthusiasts come from? iPods.  I hear a lot of audiophile pontificate about educating the next generation about our great hobby and bringing in new young enthusiasts.  iPod is the gate way for that and many audiophiles instead are smugly condescending.  Not really all that welcoming for those new recruits.

Just my 2, 3, 4, cents.  Sorry, rant over.   

[Napalm]

I apologize for not addressing this sooner:  I thought I saw you had ATC speakers somewhere.  I did have some SCM-12's.  I regret selling them, and not getting larger ATC's.  Power hungry little suckers...but amazingly revealing.  I'd say they are at least on par with a 320k mp3 playing through some bose am5's! 

Nope, I'm cheap. Yamaha NS-10s and Auratones for me.

Nap. 

[werd]

Nope, I have Paradigm Studio 100. I'm cheap and low-fi.

Nap. 

Do you have those studio 100's spiked up on carpet?

[Napalm]

Do you have those studio 100's spiked up on carpet?

Bolted.

Nap.

[werd]

Bolted.

Nap.

Hello

I guess that's the same, you should try spikes though.

[kingdeezie]

Nothing turns the average person off faster than the super-uptight, snobbish audiophile type.  You know the type that makes snide comments and sniffs at anything considered less-than-perfect.  "Oh heavens, when will you upgrade?"  That type of pinky-extended, chest-puffing caviar-and-XO cognac attitude alienates people.  It makes them say "I never want to be like that!"  Hyper-obsessive behavior with anything is unjustifiable to most people. That is especially true if it comes with arrogance.

I see what you are saying here, but I am not quite sure why you quoted my previous post; unless, of course, you considered it to be "snobbish" in some way.

I was merely pointing out that a lot of people that I know, or talk to about my system, don't really view music as something that deserves specific and special attention; let alone spending thousands of dollars on it.

I hold no pretense that I own anything special, and I certainly don't think I have a system anywhere near perfect.

I'm still on a constant journey to find my own satisfaction.

[Napalm]

Hello

I guess that's the same, you should try spikes though.

Naah. I only recommend spikes to "friends" that have hardwood installed. Then we go through a long session of speaker positioning.

Nap. 

[Construct]

I see what you are saying here, but I am not quite sure why you quoted my previous post; unless, of course, you considered it to be "snobbish" in some way.

I was merely pointing out that a lot of people that I know, or talk to about my system, don't really view music as something that deserves specific and special attention; let alone spending thousands of dollars on it.

I hold no pretense that I own anything special, and I certainly don't think I have a system anywhere near perfect.

I'm still on a constant journey to find my own satisfaction.

No, apologies---it was not aimed at you.  I was throwing in .02 and just adding...not insinuating.

[alexone]

While I certainly agree that there's some absurdly priced stuff out there, keep things in context.  What average person wouldn't think any of the following are things only an idiot would buy -

A $2800 CD player - 'I can get a DVD player at Walmart for $50 that'll play CDs and DVDs'  Why get a CD player when you can get an iPod?
A 100x2 Watt amp for $2650 -Average Joe= 'My JVC and or Sony receiver is 150x7 and it only cost $300'
A $2K pre-amp (remote costs extra and only has 4 buttons)  - Average Joe='What's a pre-amp?'
A $2550 phono stage (without power supply)- Average Joe='Who the hell listens to records anymore?  They sound like crap'
A $1500 turntable (not including the cartridge, isolation stuff, cleaning stuff, etc.) - See phono stage comments
A pair of $3200 speakers - Average Joe='My Samsung HTIB system has 7 speakers, a subwoofer, a 150x7 receiver, and a DVD player for $499'
$200/meter interconnects x however many - Average Joe='Its a wire.........are you nuts?'
$5/ foot speakers cables x however many feet - 'Its a wire-Are you nuts?' 

The following are some of my favorites too -   

'No iPod dock?'
'Bose is the best'
'For $5k it should be so loud it knocks the house down.'
'For $5k it should *&%$ my @#$%.' or any other sexual or house cleaning actions.
'My car's system has way better bass.'

My  system (listed in my signature) is way too overpriced for most people out there.  Most people look at me like I have 3 heads when I tell them I have a $3000 CD player.  Not that I tell too many people.  One of them is a high ranking engineer for Otis elevators who makes about $500k per year.  I make 1/10 of that.  Funny thing is, he's got the top of the line Bose surround system (if there's such a thing) in his basement that cost about what my entire system cost.

In some ways I envy people who have no idea that reproduced music could sound so good.


I found this in another thread,but it smacks of truth for the "Average Joe"

very good point here by Stu.

i was talking to a co-worker one day who knew about my hobby. he assumed that my gear must have cost a fortune and he stated very proud that he would NEVER spend that amount on audio gear. he was smoking while we were talking. later i heard him talking to another guy. he said "you know what? i found out that i spent over 12.000 Euros on cigarettes eversince i started smoking".

i later asked him "did you really spent 12.000 Euros on cigarettes? i spent the same for my audio. your cigs are there in the ashtray doing nothing for you anymore...my audio is still there serving me day by day. that's the big difference."



al. non smoker.

[vegasdave]

Hi end don´t need to be justify, since I'm a grown man and I make my own decisions not to be aproved among by others, but to satisfy myself. 
Cheers!
Armando!

There you go. I like your statement. A lot.