Open baffle woofer choices

Lazz · « **on:** 3 Jul 2010, 02:59 am »

Hi guys thought I'd ask the question again as some new suppliers have become available to us here in Oz. I am thinking of building an ob in the style of the Jamo R909 or possibly the BD Quasar an have had trouble justyfying $ for the types of woofer selection we have in Oz. Originally when I started thinking about this project the $ were even higher. The three I am looking at the moment are the Dayton Audio RSS390 $245ea or the Exodus x2 Tempest $320ea or the Pyle ppa18 $140ea. I want to mate them with some Beyma 15kx? coaxials I already have. Which of these would be the most suitable. If the Pyle's would be ok then I'd save the money and use it to purchase the Behringer dcx2496. Thx Lazz.
Exodus Tempest x2
Description Paramter Value Unit
Resonant frequency Fs 19.5 Hz
Half space sensitivity (1W@1m) SPL 87.9 dB SPL
Mechanical quality factor Qms 3.82
Electrical quality factor Qes 0.47
Total quality factor Qts 0.42
Equivalent Cas air load Vas 255 liters
Effective piston area Sd 807 cm2
DC Resistance (series) Re 3.8 W
Voice-coil inductance (series) Le 0.98 mH
Rated Impedance (series) Z 4 W
Maximum linear excursion Xmax 26 ±mm
Power handling capacity Pmax 1000 W

Dyton RSS390
Specifications Power handling: 500 watts RMS/800 watts max VCdia: 2-1/2" Le: 1.00 mH Impedance: 4 ohms Re: 3.3 ohms Frequency range: 18 - 800 Hz Fs: 18 Hz SPL: 90 dB 2.83 V/1m Vas: 9.55 cu. ft. Qms: 3.10 Qes: .49 Qts: .42 Xmax: 14mm Dimensions: Overall Diameter: 15-5/16" Cutout Diameter: 14-1/8" Mounting Depth: 6-1/8"

Pyle PPA18

panomaniac · « **Reply #1 on:** 3 Jul 2010, 12:10 pm »

Pyle quality is real hit and miss. But it is cheap. The other 2 are nice, but low sensitivity, so you'll have to throw a lot of power at them. In OB bass you loose a lot of power in the low end, so have to make that up somewhere. They are all mid-Q drivers, so will need similar EQ-crossover.

If you have some way to test the T/S parameters, I'd go with the Pyle. If it does not come near spec (some don't) then return it.

This is one way to do a coax and helper sub that works well:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=79439.msg782993#msg782993

ttan98 · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Jul 2010, 08:19 am »

Hi,

I am from Aussie land and I bought 4 units of 12" Acoustinator(from Eminence), each with Qts = 0.6-0.7 and Fs=35 Hz, I mounted them in a shallow U-frame, I can get down flat to about 45Hz. LSome equalization is required if you want to get it flat to 35Hz. I can recommend these drivers. Also GR research is using them in a V-shape H-frame.

I bought them in while I was in the States and brought them back to Aussie land for about US$79 each. You can look up at Ebay and from one of the Eminence speakers suppliers and import them and still cheaper by the time it arrives in Australia.

Cheers, happy building.

Lazz · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 Jul 2010, 08:42 am »

Thx Ttan I really want something larger such as the 15" or 18" units so I can really move some air. But I will keep them in mind.

ttan98 · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 Jul 2010, 09:34 am »

Unless you have a large room to house these speakers, 15" or 18" esp. twin spkrs they will look enormous in your living room. I found 2*12" are too large already.

panomaniac · « **Reply #5 on:** 5 Jul 2010, 01:57 pm »

I have 2 of the Acoustinator 12s that came from the same lot that GR Research bought. They are nice and will do 45Hz easy, as ttan says. They make a good OB woofer.

scorpion · « **Reply #6 on:** 6 Jul 2010, 10:21 am »

However good Acoustinator may be it's X-max is a bit small for OB. The choice today would be Acoustic Elegance IB15 4 ohm, one each side is sufficient: http://www.aespeakers.com/drivers.php?driver_id=8 .

/Erling

panomaniac · « **Reply #7 on:** 6 Jul 2010, 01:22 pm »

Sure, but 2X per side works well in the V2 from GR Research. I should know, I spent a few days with them.

The IB15 does look like a more serious choice, tho. How is it on price?

The Peerless 830669 is hard to beat for a 12" OB. Such a clean driver.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #8 on:** 6 Jul 2010, 02:08 pm »

Quote

I have 2 of the Acoustinator 12s that came from the same lot that GR Research bought. They are nice and will do 45Hz easy, as ttan says. They make a good OB woofer.

Yeah, but what really made them work for me in that design was the SA-1 amp. You can see the amp in my circle or on my web site. The amp mirror images the roll off of the open baffle design to keep the woofers playing flat down into a lower range (-3db mid to upper 20's). A steep rumble filter then pulls everything off of them at 20Hz to keep them from getting too much low frequency information that might run them out of their limited X-max.

Two of them per side keeps up with the 91db sensitivity coaxial used in the V-2 to good levels without over driving them.

I thought them to be a good low cost solution when paired with the SA-1 amp. That's why I built the V-2 kit around them.

scorpion · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 Jul 2010, 04:02 pm »

Pano, I could as well post the link to their Shop, these speakers are pratically given away: http://aespeakers.com/shop/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=55 . And as well a link for Danny to their Auto speakers: http://www.aespeakers.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2381 .

/Erling

panomaniac · « **Reply #10 on:** 8 Jul 2010, 02:20 pm »

Yes, that looks like a lot of driver for the price.

I have not heard the AE drivers (that I remember) but have friends who own them and are quite happy with them.

Welborne · « **Reply #11 on:** 11 Jul 2010, 11:02 am »

http://professional.celestion.com/pro/products/ftr/detail.asp?ID=1

Dear Pano, what do you think of this Celestion 15" as OB woofer? They are cheap here in hong kong. (probably around usd150/pair). i have their 18" ftr18-4080f and used them for a while, but though would be better to use a smaller 15" with higher BL/mmd ratio for better transition. I will use the twin 18" per side close to the front wall as "ob subwoofer".

I wanted to use Altec 416a just like Lowther America's LOB project (with lowther) but the Altec are very expensive. The recommended Altec also has a rather low Qts (0.2x) too....

Welborne · « **Reply #12 on:** 11 Jul 2010, 11:03 am »

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #13 on:** 11 Jul 2010, 11:55 am »

Hi,
The Eminence Alpha-15A is no more recommended ??
Wonder If there is any other woofer better today 2010 for OB to be paired with the usual Visaton B200 ??
Thanks, Gustavo

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #14 on:** 12 Jul 2010, 06:02 am »

Just found the LAMBDA DIPOLE-15 on the AEspeakers.com site, looks a serious driver for a OB panel. I wonder which is the best sound, the oldfashioned Alpha-15A or the new AE Dipole-15 ??

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #15 on:** 12 Jul 2010, 06:10 am »

TS info avaliable to both drivers for comparison.

Welborne · « **Reply #16 on:** 12 Jul 2010, 07:53 am »

the Dipole15's BL/mms ratio seems rather low

JohnR · « **Reply #17 on:** 12 Jul 2010, 09:01 am »

Quote from: Welborne on 12 Jul 2010, 07:53 am

the Dipole15's BL/mms ratio seems rather low

Anyway - Gustavo, those drivers have been around for a while, now in their second lifetime being produced by AE. We measured the 12" in a modest-sized baffle as flat in-room from 30Hz to 300Hz with a simple 12dB/octave lowpass (can't tell exactly the frequency the crossover was set as the control had no markings). The second chart you have is a bit confusing as it actually has dual 8-ohm coils.

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #18 on:** 12 Jul 2010, 10:58 am »

Quote from: JohnR on 12 Jul 2010, 09:01 am

Anyway - Gustavo, those drivers have been around for a while, now in their second lifetime being produced by AE. We measured the 12" in a modest-sized baffle as flat in-room from 30Hz to 300Hz with a simple 12dB/octave lowpass (can't tell exactly the frequency the crossover was set as the control had no markings). The second chart you have is a bit confusing as it actually has dual 8-ohm coils.

Dear John,
As the Dipole15 have two voice coils, maybe the site info is not clear to my expertise. How is the Dipole12 sound??

I think the Dipole15 cone weight(90gr) is heavy, as the Alpha MMS is 59gr. A heavy cone is suited to ProAudio speakers, Hi-Fi cones use light cone to made nice micro-dinamic detail.
Regards, Gustavo

FullRangeMan · « **Reply #19 on:** 12 Jul 2010, 11:03 am »

Quote from: Welborne on 12 Jul 2010, 07:53 am

the Dipole15's BL/mms ratio seems rather low

Hi,
I just see other page on the AEspeaker.com site where they show a BL of 12,2T for the Dipole15, then is 6,1T per VC.
Regards, Gustavo