[drphoto]

Ok, I sort of got back into this as the Mapletree pre I got has a built in phono stage. While I love the sound of the linestage part of this little bargain, the phono section is a bit noisy. It might simply be microphonic tubes, but as it uses the fairly rare 12SC7 it might be hard to find good replacements. At the high gain I need for my Denon DL-160 I get hiss, but more problematic is a low end rumbly sort of noise.

AC member Merle has a Vista phono pre for sale. Would I be better off just going this route? Would this give me quiet phono step up and then the tubey goodness of the MAP linestage into my amps?

Thanks again. Obviously I'm more and more commited to the big disk.

[Ericus Rex]

Hi Doc,

I have never heard the Vista.  But I do now own one of Ray Samuels' Nighthawks.  I thought I'd never like a solid state phono pre (tubes everywhere in my sys) but this thing really is a winner.  It's mega silent and super versatile with front panel gain and loading controls.  Is it better than the Vista?  I can't say.  Maybe others on this site can answer that.  Do read the thread about the Nighthawk here on AC.  Hope this helps.

[kingdeezie]

I've never heard the Vista or the Nighthawk, but I do believe that the phono preamplifier is one of the most crucial parts of the analog chain.

I have a Dodd Audio phono preamp that is fairly decent, but I am always wondering what a better phono stage could bring me in terms of resolution, transparency, and naturalness.

I can speak from experience when it comes to the MAD; I use to own it.

I had the same problems that you are experiencing with the MAD when using the built in phono. It was very noisy with a ton of tube rush at decent volume levels using my Dynavector 20XHO MC. 

I got the Dodd and it was much much better. I am sure the Vista would do the same for you.

[jsaliga]

The Nighthawk is a very nice phono preamp.  I own one and am presently using it in my rig.  They sell for about $800.  I don't know if you want to drop that much coin, however.

If you would rather spend less then check out a TC-760LC from Phonopreamps.com.  I used one for a couple of years and still have mine (I won't part with it).  You can score a new one for about $75.  I thought it compared favorably to the $1,500 Eastern Electric phono preamp that I owned for a while and then sold.  Here is a link to that review...

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=78666.0

The RSA Nighthawk, with it's lithium-ion battery, is a shade quieter than the TC-760LC.  But not to such a degree that one would notice when playing music.  The Nighthawk has other positives, such as gain and load adjustments.  The TC only has a gain control.  But it worked well with every cartridge that I could throw at it: Benz Glider H2, Benz Wood M2, ZYX Airy3, Ortofon Kontrapunkt A, and Ortofon Jubilee.

--Jerome

[TheChairGuy]

Doc,

I don't know what amp(s) you have....but I am a proponent of solid state, full-functioned preamp (that is, one that has built in phono) and tube amps.  It's just a ticket to bliss for me.

Vinyl, I have found, is best enjoyed with as direct a transmission path as possible...with a minimum of joints for eeny-weeny cartridge voltages to jump over.  That means, a set of IC's run to your full function preamp (that includes both line and phono stages) and on into amp or mono amps and into a speaker set that can be drives by said amps.

Eliminating the junctions, whether it be rca junctions or soldered joints is really beneficial to maintaining delicate signals with robust character.

Solid state, preferably dual mono, works best as the eeny-weeny cartridge voltage must be amplified so significantly, that I have yet to hear a phono stage do so without noise that interferes with the sonics.

I use a (dual mono straight back to the toroids) Pioneer Elite SX-A9-J receiver as a preamp/tuner only...going into mono tube amps and the sound is divine.  They are hard to come by now as they have been disco'ed, but cost about $700 new.

It comes recommended highly from me.

I'm one of very few that will discourage the use of outboard phono amps...so be advised I[m something of a heretic in the general community about this point 

John   

[drphoto]

I ordered that TC-760 based on Jeromes's recommendation. (Sorry Merle)

I think this is the right path. I'm convinced the noisy phono section of my pre is the source of my problems.

[Bill]

Weird, I have a Mapletree Phono 4SE and it's dead quiet.

[drphoto]

Blair from Niteshade gave me a lead on where to get the oddball 12sc7 phono tube. If those work, I will try to return the SS phono pre.

I don't link the previous owner of the MAD ever used the phono stage.

It is very quiet on the linestage part.

[kingdeezie]

Blair from Niteshade gave me a lead on where to get the oddball 12sc7 phono tube. If those work, I will try to return the SS phono pre.

I don't link the previous owner of the MAD ever used the phono stage.

It is very quiet on the linestage part.

I'm not sure if this is directed at my comment, but I did in fact state that I used the phono section of the MAD and found it to be very noisy with my HO MC.

The line section was quiet when used with a digital source, but then again, the line section is only supplying something like 16DBs of gain.

The phono section is supplying something over 40 DBS of gain.

[drphoto]

Well, we'll see. I'm cool with how ever it turns out. I like the litte MAD a lot. If I need the SS phono, so be it. The tubes only cost me $15.

[Berndt]

I sold my MAD U4 because the phono section was not very good, for me.
Veiled, rolled off, and the metal can tubes were microphonic.
The preamp was nice though.
I built a diy phono stage that is really really nice.
Gucci 6sl7's can be kinda pricey but at least they are available.
I'm all for a stand alone phono stage, friend has a nighthawk and the same 6sl7 diy phonostage as mine. The useability of the nighthawk as far as loading and adj gain is awesome. The tube units we have are a bit more dynamic though.

[Gopher]

Hi Doc,

I have never heard the Vista.  But I do now own one of Ray Samuels' Nighthawks.  I thought I'd never like a solid state phono pre (tubes everywhere in my sys) but this thing really is a winner.  It's mega silent and super versatile with front panel gain and loading controls.  Is it better than the Vista?  I can't say.  Maybe others on this site can answer that.  Do read the thread about the Nighthawk here on AC.  Hope this helps.

Yes, the Nighthawk is better than the Vista.  I've heard both in my own system and in the system of a fellow asylumer.  BUT for the money that Vista was selling for used, it is beyond a no-brainer.  You will not do better under $200!

[MaxCast]

BUT for the money that Vista was selling for used, it is beyond a no-brainer.  You will not do better under $200!

[etcarroll]

drphoto -

Look forward to your thoughts on the TC-760, as I'm in the same boat.

I ordered that TC-760 based on Jeromes's recommendation. (Sorry Merle)

I think this is the right path. I'm convinced the noisy phono section of my pre is the source of my problems.

[drphoto]

New tubes solved the problem, so I'm sending the the TC-760 back. They charge a 20% restock fee, so if you want it, I'd sell it to you for 20% off! It's never even been taken out of the shipping container, let alone opened and played.

LMK in the next few days if interested please.

joe

[etcarroll]

you got PM.

[etcarroll]

Jerome -

I grabbed drphoto's TC-706LC, probably wont listen for a few days, but I see 2 things that may need replacing, the wall-wart and the ICs.

I already made a pair of clones of the Rega Couple for my Rega cdr, I like them so far, they may wind up on the TC.

Did you ever do anything to improve the wall-wart?

Gene

If you would rather spend less then check out a TC-760LC from Phonopreamps.com.  I used one for a couple of years and still have mine (I won't part with it).
--Jerome

[jsaliga]

Did you ever do anything to improve the wall-wart?

Nope.  Never felt a need to change anything.

--Jerome