your systems output aveerage SPL

vettemanbc · « **on:** 29 Jun 2010, 05:25 pm »

Hi guys, I was wondering what level of output, average SPL at listening position, some other Bryston users have? IT seems I have a lot of equpment compared to what lots of you guys are writing about. I have 4 7B ST and 3 3B (2 SST and 1 ST) powering 14 drivers and activly to boot. I listen at 95 to 105 dB,everywhere in the room (thats not max) but but where I like to listen to most music. However it takes 4 x18 inch (subs) 4x15inch (woffers) and 4 x7BST for the first 100 hz. btw I am strictly 2 channel, no movies.

James Tanner · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Jun 2010, 05:42 pm »

Quote from: vettemanbc on 29 Jun 2010, 05:25 pm

Hi guys, I was wondering what level of output, average SPL at listening position, some other Bryston users have? IT seems I have a lot of equpment compared to what lots of you guys are writing about. I have 4 7B ST and 3 3B (2 SST and 1 ST) powering 14 drivers and activly to boot. I listen at 95 to 105 dB,everywhere in the room (thats not max) but but where I like to listen to most music. However it takes 4 x18 inch (subs) 4x15inch (woffers) and 4 x7BST for the first 100 hz. btw I am strictly 2 channel, no movies.

Need some pictures

james

bunnyma357 · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 Jun 2010, 06:36 pm »

When I was young I listened to music quite loud, resulting in permanent hearing loss in certain frequencies that I have always regretted. I'd suggest doing some research and maybe limiting your volume levels, forgoing some short term gratification for a long life of quality hearing. As important as music is to me, I wish I had taken more care.

I find a 75 dB average to be a good listening level.

Jim C

vettemanbc · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 Jun 2010, 07:22 pm »

75 dB, so you would never go to a concert? wait I saw one guy with toilet paper in his ears, all kidding aside its not 100 bB of hammering in fact it is surprisingly not loud, anoying sound is just that, and the louder the worse. I am talking about good sound, that is first. what do you think of Quad ESL 63 ? I have both love and hate, love the sound , hate the shortage of output, Btw, I believe it takes 120 dB for some length of time , and damage will be understood due to a period of ringing following any harm.I am 50 If I have damage I am unaware. How do you know you damaged your hearing? Was it from music? last I dont think I was asking any of that, but I certainly will respond if I can. What I dont know is how or where to put pics?

Mag · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Jun 2010, 07:57 pm »

Howdy Cuz!

I normally listen around the 92-95 db range. When I want to rock I'll bump up the throttle to 100 dbs.

Since getting my AVS 2000 power conditioner I am more concerned with hearing damage as the bass has more weight to it now and I can feel the spl on my ears.

I get a high from powerful sounding music. Tarkus by ELP, Show that Never Ends, is a good example. At the 19 minute mark there's what sounds to me like a low frequency nuke explosion. I fear the speakers will blow from this blast of 100 db, but they keep on rockin'.

BobRex · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Jun 2010, 08:10 pm »

Quote from: vettemanbc on 29 Jun 2010, 07:22 pm

75 dB, so you would never go to a concert? wait I saw one guy with toilet paper in his ears, all kidding aside its not 100 bB of hammering in fact it is surprisingly not loud, anoying sound is just that, and the louder the worse. I am talking about good sound, that is first. what do you think of Quad ESL 63 ? I have both love and hate, love the sound , hate the shortage of output, Btw, I believe it takes 120 dB for some length of time , and damage will be understood due to a period of ringing following any harm.I am 50 If I have damage I am unaware. How do you know you damaged your hearing? Was it from music? last I dont think I was asking any of that, but I certainly will respond if I can. What I dont know is how or where to put pics?

Take a look at this chart....

Continuous dB Permissible Exposure Time
85 db 8 hours
88 dB 4 hours
91 db 2 hours
94 db 1 hour
97 db 30 minutes
100dB 15 minutes
103 db 7.5 minutes
106 dB 3.75 min (< 4min)
109 dB 1.875 min (< 2min)
112 dB .9375 min (~1 min)
115 dB .46875 min (~30 sec)
(taken from http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/hearingloss.cfm )

So if you are truly listening at 95dB+ as an average level with peaks above that, your hearing is probably already shot. BTW, while it's not on the chart, at 120dB damage is instantaneous. Look at Pete Townsend or Dave Swarbrick (to name but a few) who are now feeling (hearing?) the repercussions of high volumes.

And yes, I also keep my peaks below 90 dB, which is just what I hear at live symphonies and jazz concerts.

coke · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Jun 2010, 08:14 pm »

Quote from: vettemanbc on 29 Jun 2010, 07:22 pm

75 dB, so you would never go to a concert? wait I saw one guy with toilet paper in his ears, all kidding aside its not 100 bB of hammering in fact it is surprisingly not loud, anoying sound is just that, and the louder the worse. I am talking about good sound, that is first. what do you think of Quad ESL 63 ? I have both love and hate, love the sound , hate the shortage of output, Btw, I believe it takes 120 dB for some length of time , and damage will be understood due to a period of ringing following any harm.I am 50 If I have damage I am unaware. How do you know you damaged your hearing? Was it from music? last I dont think I was asking any of that, but I certainly will respond if I can. What I dont know is how or where to put pics?

Some people confuse distortion with loudness, and lack of distortion with "safe". A cheap system can sound "louder" than a quality system at the same dB level, simply because of the distortion.

Not sure if this makes sense, but from the sounds of it, your system is capable of producing clean sound with little distortion at levels high enough to cause hearing damage.

JRace · « **Reply #7 on:** 29 Jun 2010, 08:29 pm »

^^BOBREX

Is that scale in dB A or dB C?

Keep in mind those ratings are for continuous sound levels, which is not present in music. As well, most of the time the dB level you are reading for music comes from the bass, which we can sustain much higher levels for longer without damage.

FWIW I test hearing for a living, and have 100's of noise-induced workers as clients.

I also have 0 musician clients.
--

And on topic, I usually listen at 80dB C SPL with peaks of 100+, unless the wife is around, and then it is more like 60dB C SPL.

Mag · « **Reply #8 on:** 29 Jun 2010, 08:39 pm »

That chart can't be right when it comes to music. I've been listening to music in 92 db range for 10+ years at 30 to 50 hours per week. I'm just beginning to loose my hearing.

bunnyma357 · « **Reply #9 on:** 29 Jun 2010, 08:41 pm »

My point isn't that I haven't enjoyed listening at higher SPL's, it is that I am now deaf at certain frequencies - DEAF. I was unaware of the damage I was doing when enjoying "concert level sounds", but I wish I had some guidance.

To be sure I enjoyed listening loud, but I have paid for it for decades with diminished hearing. I wish I could say there are no consequences - listen as loud as you want, but I can't. Do what you want, but if you've ever had your ears tested, and you know they are playing a frequency that you should be able to hear and there simply is nothing registering, you realize you've destroyed one of the things you love.

As noted duration is a big factor, I go to concerts and they are loud - that is limited exposure versus listening to those same damaging levels day in and day out.

Jim C

JRace · « **Reply #10 on:** 29 Jun 2010, 09:37 pm »

And if anyone cares...you can gert musican-grade hearing protection.
These do a better job of attenuating the sound so that you still hear the quality of the sound, just not the intensity. Regular earplugs end up cutting the treble and boosting the bass.

You can get custom molded ones, and re-usable non molded ones.

I use them for every concert I attend.

James Tanner · « **Reply #11 on:** 29 Jun 2010, 10:37 pm »

Quote from: JRace on 29 Jun 2010, 09:37 pm

And if anyone cares...you can gert musican-grade hearing protection.
These do a better job of attenuating the sound so that you still hear the quality of the sound, just not the intensity. Regular earplugs end up cutting the treble and boosting the bass.

You can get custom molded ones, and re-usable non molded ones.

I use them for every concert I attend.

Hi JRace,

That's interesting - can you give us more details?

james

vegasdave · « **Reply #12 on:** 30 Jun 2010, 12:26 am »

Probably 80-90db.

dmatt · « **Reply #13 on:** 30 Jun 2010, 12:49 am »

James,

I'm not sure which brand JRace had in mind, but I use these from Etymotic when going to loud venues:

http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er20.aspx

They also make custom in the ear sets as well:

http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/erme.aspx

David

James Tanner · « **Reply #14 on:** 30 Jun 2010, 12:55 am »

Quote from: dmatt on 30 Jun 2010, 12:49 am

James,

I'm not sure which brand JRace had in mind, but I use these from Etymotic when going to loud venues:

http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er20.aspx

They also make custom in the ear sets as well:

http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/erme.aspx

David

Thanks David.

james

vettemanbc · « **Reply #15 on:** 30 Jun 2010, 05:09 am »

Sorry boys I think I fudged the reading.
I read the above, got a bit of a scare, Went to that web sight, could not find any references, so I went here: http://www.osha.gov/dts/osta/otm/noise/standards_more.html
occupational health and saftey admin. in D.C. where a chart that converts SPL to PEL permissible exposure limits can be seen,
but it is A weighted , and I used C weighted, which turns 105 dB into less than 95 dB, which is save for 4 hours every day!!!!! There it is no hearing loss, sorry about the screw up.

mclsound · « **Reply #16 on:** 30 Jun 2010, 07:59 am »

I know I dont put 4000 watts in my HT/2ch for no 80db,but thats just me!LOL

JRace · « **Reply #17 on:** 30 Jun 2010, 02:45 pm »

Quote from: dmatt on 30 Jun 2010, 12:49 am

James,
I'm not sure which brand JRace had in mind, but I use these from Etymotic when going to loud venues:

http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/er20.aspx
They also make custom in the ear sets as well:
http://www.etymotic.com/ephp/erme.aspx
David

Those are the same ones. Highly recommended.

BobRex · « **Reply #18 on:** 30 Jun 2010, 03:11 pm »

Quote from: JRace on 29 Jun 2010, 08:29 pm

^^BOBREX

Is that scale in dB A or dB C?

Keep in mind those ratings are for continuous sound levels, which is not present in music. As well, most of the time the dB level you are reading for music comes from the bass, which we can sustain much higher levels for longer without damage.

FWIW I test hearing for a living, and have 100's of noise-induced workers as clients.

I also have 0 musician clients.
--

And on topic, I usually listen at 80dB C SPL with peaks of 100+, unless the wife is around, and then it is more like 60dB C SPL.

I though the chart was A weighted, but they don't supply a reference so don't hold me to that.

Yeah, I know that this chart (and the OSHA chart for that matter) is based on continous SPL, but depending upon the type of music being played, and the format (given the compression wars on modern music) I'm not sure that there is enough of a dynamic window to exclude some music from being considered a continuous SPL exposure. Nor am I convinced that the SPL readings favor the bass. I've read reports of orchestra members, esp. those sitting in front of the brass section, suffering from NIL.

If you are listening at 80dBc average, given that the peak to mean ratio for CD recordings is claimed to be 20dB, and that is typically only in classical recordings, I wonder if you are really hitting 100+dB peaks. It's the plus part that I'm having a hard time with, there just aren't that many recordings with that wide of a dynamic.

Construct · « **Reply #19 on:** 30 Jun 2010, 03:21 pm »

Quote from: coke on 29 Jun 2010, 08:14 pm

Some people confuse distortion with loudness, and lack of distortion with "safe". A cheap system can sound "louder" than a quality system at the same dB level, simply because of the distortion.

Not sure if this makes sense, but from the sounds of it, your system is capable of producing clean sound with little distortion at levels high enough to cause hearing damage.

Agreed. It has long been my observation that a quality system will sound deceptively quiet due to lack of distortion. For example: I can remember the days of big disco style party speakers cranked up. The harshness would make them sound ear splitting even at 96db. Quality systems can have orchestral pieces at 96db with 110db peaks and not actually "sound" loud. If a system sounds fatiguing after 1 hour of listening at 91db, I have the wrong system.
The "noise" measurements might have a caveat. It's not like we would be listening to a constant 8khz tone at 90+db for 1 hour. Loud, distorted upper midrange and higher frequencies do the damage.