Speaker suggestions for 2B-SST?

misterharrison · « **on:** 26 Jun 2010, 02:56 pm »

Hi all

My 2BSST is currently driving some vintage JBL L65A's ("Jubals") and up until recently I have been perfectly satisfied with the combination. Those 12 inch bass drivers come in especially handy for parties, and the 077 tweeters will cut through anything!

However I am beginning to suspect that the JBLs are not telling me the whole story - they do, after all, have that American 'west-coast' sound: all highs and lows and no mids. I believe this sound-contour is exacerbated by my preamp which is a (also vintage) Bozak CMA 10-2DLA DJ mixer; that's right, I have two turntables...

Before anyone knocks the Bozak, be aware that it is a fully-discrete, fully-restored audiophile unit with TKD Ko-on pots and new caps, not to mention the custom outboard power-supply (see here: http://www.isonoe.com/custom-equipment.html). Basically, it's my pride and joy.

I'm also noticing that my listening sessions are perhaps not as long as they might be - a bit of fatigue from those highs, I suspect.

So I am looking for speakers in the £1500-£2000/1500-2000 euro range that will give me a bit more of that "midrange magic" without losing the impact and dynamics that I'm getting from the Jubals. I'm happy to consider stand-mounters or floorstanders, although it's worth bearing in mind that I live in an apartment so I rarely get the chance to play at high volumes - sadly those parties don't happen as regularly as I would wish.

I mostly listen to 70s soul, jazz-funk and *shudder* disco, with the odd smattering of electronica thrown into the mix.

I'm currently thinking PMC FB1i/Harbeth SHL5/ATC SCM19, although the first two are just out of my price range. Am I thinking along the right lines? Maybe the 2BSST hasn't got enough power to drive these? I'm a bit of a beginner when it comes to this stuff, so all advice is welcome and taken at face value.

Napalm · « **Reply #1 on:** 26 Jun 2010, 03:09 pm »

You will miss that 12" driver no matter what you'll do. Unless you get a subwoofer. So my suggestion is to go for a pair of clean clear honest standmounts and a sub. This way your amp won't be overtaxed either by some huge monsters with low impedance.

Nap.

Talking brands I would suggest you look at Paradigm Studio and Signature lines. Very affordable.

P.S. Oops. You said euros. Dunno what's easily available there. Maybe Dynaudio or B&W.

misterharrison · « **Reply #2 on:** 26 Jun 2010, 04:38 pm »

Thanks for taking the time to reply, Nap.

I know what you mean about missing those 12" drivers, although I must say I hadn't considered going the 2.1 route. If I do that, then my budget for the monitors shrinks as I have to reserve some for the sub!

I'll look into Dynaudio - they should be easy enough to demo here in Portugal. As for B&W, I've always had bit of a problem with them. It may just be an irrational dislike based on their rather large market presence! Call me a snob, but I'd rather go for something a little less well-known!

Napalm · « **Reply #3 on:** 26 Jun 2010, 04:46 pm »

If they're easily available, then definitely check the Dynaudio, bookselfves and towers too. They're definitely "non-fatiguing". You may want to see if you can do without a sub.

Do not expect that towers will sound close to those 12" drivers. Most towers today have max. 8" drivers and they sound quite different than large drivers.

Nap.

eclein · « **Reply #4 on:** 26 Jun 2010, 04:56 pm »

I have JBL towers with dual 6" drivers and they are just inferior to my JBL's with 12" and a sub to add presence. Like Nap said that 12" is gonna be the thing thats hard to replace. I have my setup so I can use the sub with either 2.1 channel or 5.1 for movies using the towers and quite frankly they are hard to listen to now that I have a 12" 3-way in the house..FWIW

:thumb:My sub is a modest Polk PSW-10 and brings the low end to the party without the high end price..again just another take on your situation. Good Luck!!!

misterharrison · « **Reply #5 on:** 26 Jun 2010, 05:14 pm »

Just been reading about the Dynaudio Focus 140. Sounds good.
Going to try to get an home demo.

Could mate it at a later date with the Dynaudio Sub 250 if needed.

Napalm · « **Reply #6 on:** 26 Jun 2010, 06:41 pm »

Nice. If the room is small, they will fill it with sound without a sub as they have a small "bump" in the bass frequency response. Not the same impact as a sub, but the tonal balance is maintained.

Also think about the advantage of a 2.1 setup in an apartment: you can turn the sub off for a rather quiet audition at late hours.

Nap.

vegasdave · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 Jun 2010, 08:12 pm »

Quote from: misterharrison on 26 Jun 2010, 05:14 pm

Just been reading about the Dynaudio Focus 140. Sounds good.
Going to try to get an home demo.

Could mate it at a later date with the Dynaudio Sub 250 if needed.

I would try at least the Focus 220 II. Then you have a decent floorstander. You can still use the subwoofer if you'd like.

http://www.dynaudio.com/eng/systems/lines/focus/focus220II.php

Napalm · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 Jun 2010, 08:15 pm »

Vegasdave: the problem with floorstanders is that he might need an amp upgrade... and still not get the bass he had with the 12" drivers....

So he will have to audition stuff for a while until deciding.... big drivers spoil you...

Nap.

misterharrison · « **Reply #9 on:** 26 Jun 2010, 08:18 pm »

Quote from: vegasdave on 26 Jun 2010, 08:12 pm

I would try at least the Focus 220 II. Then you have a decent floorstander. You can still use the subwoofer if you'd like.

http://www.dynaudio.com/eng/systems/lines/focus/focus220II.php

I was looking at those too, but I wondered if the "little" 2B-SST might find them a bit much?
Also, is there much difference between the original 220 and the 'II' version?

vegasdave · « **Reply #10 on:** 26 Jun 2010, 08:19 pm »

No, no, Napalm. Look at the specs, they're virtually the same for both speakers. A low-ish sensitivity (86 db) and a 4 ohm load. The difference is, is that the 220s have higher power handling.

Of course he would. For him, I would say a minimum of 2 8" drivers per speaker. That is close to a 12" driver.

So we get into the Focus 360, which might be too much for the 2B.

vegasdave · « **Reply #11 on:** 26 Jun 2010, 08:24 pm »

Quote from: misterharrison on 26 Jun 2010, 08:18 pm

I was looking at those too, but I wondered if the "little" 2B-SST might find them a bit much?
Also, is there much difference between the original 220 and the 'II' version?

For your apartment, it shouldn't. You almost have 200 wpc on hand into 4 ohms. Since you don't play loud, that's a plus as well.

Better tweeter and crossover on the 220 II

http://www.dynaudio.com/eng/systems/lines/focus/focus220II.php

Napalm · « **Reply #12 on:** 26 Jun 2010, 08:27 pm »

Quote from: vegasdave on 26 Jun 2010, 08:19 pm

No, no, Napalm. Look at the specs, they're virtually the same for both speakers. A low-ish sensitivity (86 db) and a 4 ohm load. The difference is, is that the 220s have higher power handling.

Of course he would. For him, I would say a minimum of 2 8" drivers per speaker. That is close to a 12" driver.

So we get into the Focus 360, which might be too much for the 2B.

My speakers have 3 dedicated 7" bass drivers and they don't sound like a 12" driver although the combined area would tell otherwise. There is no replacement for large displacements. Like with cars. A 3.8L engine is a completely different experience than a 2.0L Turbo, even if on paper and with dyno they can produce some similar measurements on some tests.

So trying to keep it inside the budget..... if a sub is needed than there's no point in spending more on speakers than necessary....

Nap.

misterharrison · « **Reply #13 on:** 26 Jun 2010, 08:27 pm »

Thanks chaps.
Now to find me a Dynaudio dealer...

Napalm · « **Reply #14 on:** 26 Jun 2010, 08:29 pm »

Quote from: misterharrison on 26 Jun 2010, 08:27 pm

Thanks chaps.
Now to find me a Dynaudio dealer...

Yep that's the best thing to do now, go there and audition... a lot...

Nap.

vegasdave · « **Reply #15 on:** 26 Jun 2010, 08:38 pm »

Quote from: Napalm on 26 Jun 2010, 08:27 pm

My speakers have 3 dedicated 7" bass drivers and they don't sound like a 12" driver although the combined area would tell otherwise. There is no replacement for large displacements. Like with cars. A 3.8L engine is a completely different experience than a 2.0L Turbo, even if on paper and with dyno they can produce some similar measurements on some tests.

So trying to keep it inside the budget..... if a sub is needed than there's no point in spending more on speakers than necessary....

Nap.

Yeah, the more I think about it, that's true. But if we're talking something like Dynaudio, then the 2 8" drivers should be at least ok.

I don't like the bookshelf/sub combo, because you never can get the sub properly matched, imo.

vegasdave · « **Reply #16 on:** 26 Jun 2010, 08:38 pm »

Quote from: Napalm on 26 Jun 2010, 08:29 pm

Yep that's the best thing to do now, go there and audition... a lot...

Nap.

Definitely.

Napalm · « **Reply #17 on:** 26 Jun 2010, 08:49 pm »

Quote from: vegasdave on 26 Jun 2010, 08:38 pm

Yeah, the more I think about it, that's true. But if we're talking something like Dynaudio, then the 2 8" drivers should be at least ok.

I don't like the bookshelf/sub combo, because you never can get the sub properly matched, imo.

Yes integrating the sub can be a pain, I think that it's better to set the sub's crossover quite low and leave a "gap". You'll get the "thump" without the integration issues (addition/canceling at frequencies near crossover).

As for the drivers, the sound of a 14" can be quite unique, so pray that JBL keeps same quality level and lowers the price

:

Nap.

Anonamemouse · « **Reply #18 on:** 26 Jun 2010, 10:04 pm »

Why not build your own? For FAR less money you can have a speaker system which will outperform the JBLs easily.

Napalm · « **Reply #19 on:** 26 Jun 2010, 10:19 pm »

Quote from: Anonamemouse on 26 Jun 2010, 10:04 pm

Why not build your own? For FAR less money you can have a speaker system which will outperform the JBLs easily.

Enlighten us. Pics welcome.

Nap.