[Charles Xavier]

actually I came from songtowers and the way I look at it is hopefully more is going in to the components than the cabinet. The SPirit 1 made me say Wow.The Songtower never did.This is just opiinion.My quest is to eventually find a used pair of 3.0

[Aether Audio]

Charles,

Thanks! 

... the way I look at it is hopefully more is going in to the components than the cabinet.

Not to boast, but if you were to really do your research into speaker design, you'd find that there is more solid engineering and original electro-acoustic design (that's truly worthwhile and makes a valuable difference) in even the little Spirits, than there is in the majority of systems out there - and often regardless of price.

Not intending to slam others, but I'm just not into "me too" design.  Slapping a woofer and a tweeter (regardless of quality/cost) into a pretty box is boring and only produces "me too" results (but it does look nice, if that's the main goal).  Tweaking crossovers only gets you so far as well.  Exotic enclosure design & materials, crossover parts and wire can and do make a difference, but the cost/performance ratio just isn't there if there's nothing but typical driver implimentation behind it.

In the end it's a lot more fun to build a lower cost product based on what we would call more "common" materials, and that kicks the pants off other more expensive products.  You can always throw money at a problem, but true innovation is more challanging and fun in the end.  If you want "fancy" with all the nice finishes, exotic veneers, high-end crossover parts and wire, etc., we can do that too.  In fact, I've never had the chance to build the "monsters in my head," but if I ever do... Magico, Wilson and the rest had better duck!

Have fun,
-Bob

[turkey]

I was also very interested in the comments about ribbon tweeters.  I must admit to a love hate relationship with them.  I love their light airy detailed quality but did see some articles giving their distortion measurements.  That light airy quality is quite possibly actually distortion.  Even some extremely well respected conventional tweeters such as the Hiquphon are sometimes described like that. 

Interesting. I'm not at all a fan of most ribbon tweeters, and in fact I can't understand how people can live with some popular speakers that use them. The terms that come to mind are: overly etched, crystalline, tinkly. They're not always too bright; it's usually more subtle than that.

As far as the Hiquphon tweeters, I listened to them for a long time. They do some things right, but they have sort of a "feathery" sound to them that seems like the "airy" comment above.

Fried Products used them for at least a couple of decades, but then switched to the Vifa and Scan-Speak ring-radiator tweeters. The comment I heard was that the Vifas were superior to the Hiquphons and cost a lot less to boot.

[Charles Xavier]

So Charles how do they sound??

I will let you know soon. I am breaking them in with an Isotek Enhancer disk(ok here comes the arguments )

[Charles Xavier]

Charles,

I'd love to hear these, maybe on Oct 23d? We can use a speaker to anchor the other room, or can pop them into the main system too.

We'll have some form of Cherry amps there to use w/ them, I'm sure.

-Mike

Mike
Sad news. I will be missing your rave this year. My mother inlaw  is taking everyone to some resort in Pa. that weekend for her 90th Bday. That means you will have plenty of sunshine and it will rain on my parade. I am going to ask Joe to bring Chris's Mini's so Chris can get them back. That is if Joe will put boxes in his car. God forbid

[Charles Xavier]

Really u think so?
Nah, i dont think im strong pro salk nor spirit. Too bad, i have never heard neither of the speakers but i like the way the salk looks better.

I have been corrected for that same statement. I have been taught that "we do not look at speakers , we listen to them". 

[eclein]

I will let you know soon. I am breaking them in with an Isotek Enhancer disk(ok here comes the arguments )

...its got a good beat, easy to dance to, I'll give it a 9!!!

[ricardojoa]

I have been corrected for that same statement. I have been taught that "we do not look at speakers , we listen to them". 

Then why bother with a finish. Sounds of course is important but looks is also very important specially when some is putting in a living room. When it comes to making a decision on speakers that will be bought over the net, alot need to be considered, specially when most of time having an audition is impossible.

[lonewolfny42]

ricardojoa .....

When it comes to making a decision on speakers that will be bought over the net, alot need to be considered, specially when most of time having an audition is impossible.

Here's your chance to audition....

See this... 

[Charles Xavier]

Then why bother with a finish. Sounds of course is important but looks is also very important specially when some is putting in a living room. When it comes to making a decision on speakers that will be bought over the net, alot need to be considered, specially when most of time having an audition is impossible.

I understand your concern. That doesn't mean if it's not a fancy box it doesn't look good either. What did you do years ago before custom and the internet?

[ricardojoa]

I understand your concern. That doesn't mean if it's not a fancy box it doesn't look good either. What did you do years ago before custom and the internet?

Different taste for different folks. I dont have a lot of experience in buying speakers in the past. I was on Car audio mainly, even in the car audio industries, sometimes is impossible to audition a specific speaker i want. My purchase were based on brands names, specs and reviews. 

[Charles Xavier]

tons of reviews on the web and hardly any go up for resale compared to the one mentioned. you have to like them.I did not participate in the tour with the intentions to buy speakers.I did it becaused it was free.what I heard I liked better than what I had. what edo you currently own?

[Charles Xavier]

and if you weren't the least curious you wouldn't be posting here

[ricardojoa]

and if you weren't the least curious you wouldn't be posting here

you are right, curiosity kills. I fell like getting some of these ID speakers for audition and see how each compare. 
I curently have Ascend Sierra, great speaker for the money but missing something in the high and the mid bass IMO.

[Charles Xavier]

I will be hearing a pair this weekend .Where are you located.maybe someone is close by and you can demo some speakers.Bob's or Salks or anything else that might catch your ear.

[ricardojoa]

I will be hearing a pair this weekend .Where are you located.maybe someone is close by and you can demo some speakers.Bob's or Salks or anything else that might catch your ear.

Nah, im from asia. I dont think i will ever get to audition any of those ID companies. But i like the fact that some ID companies speakers are actually made in the US and offer better value comparing with similar prices speakers on the retail market.

[Charles Xavier]

plenty of excellent retail speakers out there.Or you can move to the U.S.

[ajzepp]

Interesting. I'm not at all a fan of most ribbon tweeters, and in fact I can't understand how people can live with some popular speakers that use them. The terms that come to mind are: overly etched, crystalline, tinkly.

Hmm....I've had my Maggie 3.6s with the (most excellent) ribbon tweeter for a little while now...and I have yet to be tinkled one even once 

[bhobba]

Hmm....I've had my Maggie 3.6s with the (most excellent) ribbon tweeter for a little while now...and I have yet to be tinkled one even once 

To my ears they don't tinkle either.  They have a light, detailed airy quality to me that I actually like.  The issue I have with ribbons is when you look at their distortion profile they actually produce quite a bit of high frequency distortion (close to or actually ultrasonic) and their waterfall plot is not that good.  This suggests the reason they sound that way is not due to quickness, transparency or other stuff people conjecture but rather because you get it all where that all includes distortion.  The reason you get more detail etc is you actually get more than was there in the first place.  If you go along to live events you will find it does not sound like that.  The treble is actually quite recessed by Hi Fi standards.  If you listen to Bob's and other top designers speakers who put accuracy foremost the first thing you will notice is a slightly recessed treble compared to ribbons and other 'audiophile' speakers.  That's because to them accuracy and neutrality is their fundamental premise so it actually sounds like live music.  I know one designer who attends a philharmonic practice performances once a week to ensure his ear is trained to know what live music sounds like and that is his reference.  I suspect Bob does something similar.

That said there is zero reason in principle why ribbons must inherently have this issue.  The new RAAL tweeter for example is reported to sound pretty much like nothing.  My advise is to go along to a live events and use that as your reference.  It could quite likely change how you judge speakers.  I can't do that these days because of arthritis but in the days I did it had a profound impact on my judgement of speakers.  The local Hi Fi store at the time was pushing Magnat speakers that to my ears had shrill overbearing treble.  Yet people were going right off over them.  I told some people near me while I was listening it was false - treble should not sound like that.  First it should not be so prominent and secondly it should be sweet.  They were not convinced.

Thanks
Bill

[Charles Xavier]

you are right, curiosity kills. I fell like getting some of these ID speakers for audition and see how each compare. 
I curently have Ascend Sierra, great speaker for the money but missing something in the high and the mid bass IMO.

Sound is

 good to me . It could be a little more extended on top