Virtue ONE.2/TWO.2 tube buffer options

Nuuk · « **on:** 21 Jun 2010, 03:20 pm »

The choice of tube buffers is quite good, more so if you don't mind a bit of DIYing with the case/PSU etc.

http://www.autocostruire.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=46&products_id=334

http://www.autocostruire.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=46&products_id=345

http://www.diyhifisupply.com/node/408

http://www.alibaba.com/product/hk100573018-101489431-100634974/DIY_Kit_Module_PCB_5670_Tube_Buffer_Pre_Amplifier_2_Channels_.html

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Analog-King-Tube-Buffer-Amp-Ecc88-6n11-E88cc-valve-/230424412236?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item35a65d804c

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Wonderful-sound-GE6111-Tube-preamplifier-Buffer-kit-/200476955927?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_AudioTVElectronics_HomeAudioHiFi_Amplifiers&hash=item2ead5b9517

etc etc

Some interesting reading for DIYers:

http://wduk.worldomain.net/forum/showthread.php?t=790

tw_switzerland · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Jun 2010, 08:40 pm »

Thank you Nuuk for listing all these interesting tube buffer offers! Wow are these cheap.

Especially the Analog King Tube seems to be a good option beside a Virtue ONE or TWO. I haven't found a single review about that tube buffer. Do you know it or any of these buffers?

Are there similar chip based buffers without tubes?

Do all these buffers enlarge the dimension of the stage?

And does anybody know what effect is responsible for the soundstage to grow? This is a very interesting effect I noticed myself. When connected through a preamp to the DAC, my Tripath amp shows a wider stage.

Sorry for asking so many questions about buffers in general. But this is quite new to me and very interesting (for ONE and TWO too, not Sensation only).

Thomas

Nuuk · « **Reply #2 on:** 21 Jun 2010, 09:36 pm »

The key point to understand is that the improvements are brought about by correctly matching the impedances, and that allows the full signal to better travel through the system. That brings about many benefits, of which a larger sound stage could be an example (it will also depend on the system, particularly the speakers, and the listening room). The more information that gets through to the speakers, the more spacial clues you hear, and you therefore get a better mental 'picture' of the sound stage. (This can also be a negative thing on some poorly produced recordings where the engineer has placed the different parts of the performance in an illogical order)

There are buffers of all sorts as I said before: transistors, Jfets and opamps all make good buffers, and can be knocked up for very little outlay if you can use a soldering iron. One of the most simple is described on Decibel Dungeon-

http://www.decdun.me.uk/gainclone2.html#discrete

Just three transistors (per channel), a few resistors, and a cap, although my favourite is the Pedja Rogic design shown further down that page.

The point I am trying to make is that it needn't be expensive to try a buffer and hear the benefits. Once you are convinced, there are buffers of all sorts (and prices) to choose from. There is no 'best' because we all have different systems, rooms, ears, tastes, and budgets. And yes, this applies to many amplifiers including the ONE and TWO!

brother love · « **Reply #3 on:** 21 Jun 2010, 09:59 pm »

I've always been a bit intriqued w/ these (2) tube buffers, but I can't help but wonder the proverbial "you get what you pay for"...

Yaqin tube buffer is an interesting one for $70 + int'l shpg. (although seems like a risky venture from a place like Hong Kong, China, etc.):

http://cgi.ebay.com/Yaqin-6J1-Tube-Signal-Upgrade-Buffer-Processor-Pre-Amp-/250651750071?cmd=ViewItem&pt=AU_Electronics_Audio_Amplifiers&hash=item3a5c022eb7#ht_2379wt_1139

Grant Fidelity offers 2 versions for $125 (single tube) & $190 (double tube) that I believe are re-badged Yaqin's to a more or lesser extent:

http://grantfidelity.com/site/catalog/52/tube_processors

John Hoffman- Affordable Audio reviewed it in Dec. 2008 issue

"Final Thoughts

On occasion I get in a product for review that exceeds my high expectations based upon what I hope it will do for my system. The Grant Fidelity B-283 Tube Processor is one such item. It offers a quality harmonic tube sound experience at a price that virtually any super cheap audio fanatic can afford. The richness and expanded soundstage it brings to a system far out weighs the harmonic tweaking that takes place. It is one of those few pieces that makes such an obvious change in a rig’s performance. What it has done for my family room rig has been so pleasing that I am giving it my highest recommendation by making it a permanent part of the system."

check Dec. 2008 to download the issue w/ the article if interested: http://grantfidelity.com/site/grant_fidelity_reviews

PSB Guy · « **Reply #4 on:** 21 Jun 2010, 11:44 pm »

Both the Grant Fidelity tube buffers use 2 tubes, but they do use different tubes. The cheaper one uses a pair of 6J1 tubes; the newer, more expensive one uses a pair of 6SN7 tubes. I actually own the cheaper version, and I bought on the strength of that very review, although I no longer use it. I was using it in my computer-based set-up I have in my office until I changed DACs recently. The DAC I'm using now, a Valab NOS DAC, has a very tube-like character by itself, I found it rendered the tube buffer useless in my case. That's not to say that tube buffers don't have their place, in my opinion. They are fabulous at sweetening the sound of many CD and DVD players, and they can even sweeten the sound of many DACs out there. It's just in my case, I don't need it. YMMV. Anyone want a tube buffer and some spare tubes? BTW, I have not tried one of Gary Dodd's tube buffers, but I have read MANY great things about them.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Jun 2010, 12:02 am »

The main problem I see with the outboard tube buffers, you have to use two sets of interconnects. Add your favorite interconnects to that pricex2. And I am sure you will lose some of the great detail the tripath is now famous for. If you are using a Sensation, Gary's tube buffer will be much more open and detail than any of the outboards.

As you can see, I hate interconnects. I would love to see a Piano inside a longer chassis Sensation. Yeah, no interconnects at all.

PSB Guy · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Jun 2010, 12:10 am »

The way I see it, you either have interconnects between components, or interconnects internally, in the form of soldered wires or traces on a PCB. Six of one, half dozen of the other. On the Grant fidelity website, they do mention that you should use the best interconnects you can find, but then everyone has their favourites, don't they? I don't want to start anything, it's just my opinion. We're all friends here

.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Jun 2010, 12:22 am »

But most people use shielded interconnects, the internal is short wires without the the surround shielding. That makes a big difference. Make yourself a pair of unshielded interconnects to hear an improvement in detail.

virtue · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Jun 2010, 12:27 am »

I'm quite impartial but without hearing any of the competitors out there, I can tell you honestly that Gary's is the best

That's all I know!

Seriously, I've heard from others that it is very quiet and musical. The tube rolling is also a big advantage versus some others. We've tried to offer it affordably while at the same time helping Gary... eat.

One day we'll offer a Dodd buffer for the ONE/TWO crowd, externally. But not this day. It could be a year away.

dvenardos · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Jun 2010, 12:52 am »

So much for going corporate on future products...

Quote from: virtue on 22 Jun 2010, 12:27 am

One day we'll offer a Dodd buffer for the ONE/TWO crowd, externally. But not this day. It could be a year away.

al128 · « **Reply #10 on:** 24 Jun 2010, 08:26 pm »

Quote from: Nuuk on 21 Jun 2010, 09:36 pm

The key point to understand is that the improvements are brought about by correctly matching the impedances, and that allows the full signal to better travel through the system. That brings about many benefits, of which a larger sound stage could be an example (it will also depend on the system, particularly the speakers, and the listening room). The more information that gets through to the speakers, the more spacial clues you hear, and you therefore get a better mental 'picture' of the sound stage. (This can also be a negative thing on some poorly produced recordings where the engineer has placed the different parts of the performance in an illogical order)

nuuk,

i hope you dont mind my asking ... is there a difference between a buffer and a - say - DAC with variable output?

I do have said DAC, but dont really hear much difference wheater I set the amp-pot on full and throttle the volume with the DAC (analog opamps) or if I set the DAC output at max and throttle with the amp ...

or is this not really the same as you achive with a buffer?

thx for your input
al

eclein · « **Reply #11 on:** 24 Jun 2010, 08:47 pm »

Quote from: al128 on 24 Jun 2010, 08:26 pm

nuuk,

i hope you dont mind my asking ... is there a difference between a buffer and a - say - DAC with variable output?

I do have said DAC, but dont really hear much difference wheater I set the amp-pot on full and throttle the volume with the DAC (analog opamps) or if I set the DAC output at max and throttle with the amp ...

or is this not really the same as you achive with a buffer?

thx for your input
al

Al...I think if your DAC has a tube in it and a tube pre-out that you use you get the flavor of the tube type sound. A tube buffer does the same thing basically without the D to A conversion I think, you are running the signal through tubes to get the tube type sound.
Thats the way I understand it...but that might not be what your asking..not sure..

Nuuk · « **Reply #12 on:** 25 Jun 2010, 08:07 am »

That's correct. A buffer is just a circuit that usually has a high input impedance and a low output impedance. It could go on the output of a DAC or CDP, in a pre amp or its own case, or on the input of a power amp.

The only difference the location in the system may make is down to the interconnects, particularly if they are harder to drive.

eclein · « **Reply #13 on:** 11 Jul 2010, 12:44 pm »

So as a new owner of a TWO.2 and loving the tube sound I anxiously await the Dodd buffer for our little dynamos. In the meantime with the help of Cornelis (PSB Guy) I have acquired a Grant Fidelity B-283 Tube Buffer and along with my Tube DAC have hit on an extremely pleasing sound. I use the Tube pre-out of the DAC/Passive Preamp and then into the Tube Buffer and onto Virtue TWO.2. It sounds incredible..not too tubey as I originally thought it would be.
I use the TWO.2 as an amp and have the 80hz high pass filter in place...The sound is "golden", very liquid and smooth...a joy to listen to. The Virtue TWO.2 has been an excellent addition to my setup...if your contemplating a Dodd Buffer I urge you to go for it. Your ears will thank you.

jbeard · « **Reply #14 on:** 4 Oct 2010, 06:03 pm »

Has anyone given the Yaqin CD3 6SN7 tube buffer a try with the Virtue Amp?

I may order one for my One.2 and was just wondering if anyone had impressions.

I contemplated getting the Sensation with the Dodd buffer but I am afraid the budget will not allow. It looks like the Yaqin will get me most of the way there anyway for substantially less cash.