[cody69]

Have just configured my mac mini located in my main listening room to play in my secondary room via Apple Expres connected to Musical Fidelity V-DAC via toslink cable. The issue is I'm a bit underwhelmed with the audio quality -- it is missing detail and clarity -- mids are kind of missing -- bass is blurred. Is there a setting that I might be missing here?

Before I connected the system up via AE in the remote room, I connected the MF V-DAC to the mini in the main room via the toslink cable, and was very impressed with the sound, so I know what it sounded like with a direct connection. Its that when I connected it via the wireless network, the quality seemed to degrade. Hoping I've just overlooked a setting... thanks for any advice.

[Crimson]

The newer n-spec AExs have higher jitter on the toslink out. That may be one reason. Also high resolution files will be down sampled to 16/44.1.

[cody69]

Yes, I've read new AE have higher jitter, however I was under the impression that resulted in drop-out when playing and during transitions between songs, but wasn't aware that would impact overall sound quality.

Let me address this from another angle -- I'd be interested in hearing from others what your experience has been with the n-spec Airport Express and if you've noticed a difference in audio quality vs using a direct wired connection.

[Crimson]

Jitter won't have any bearing on connectivity issues, but rather a smearing (if it's high enough) of the overall presentation.

[srb]

Jitter won't have any bearing on connectivity issues, but rather a smearing (if it's high enough) of the overall presentation.

Actually, both.  The AEX-N causes dropouts and stutters when used with some DACs due to it's jitter-rich output.
 
As far as the smearing, there does seem to be a synergy thing between some digital outputs and DACs.  I suspect that of those who try both Toslink wired and AEX wireless, some will say no difference and some will say big difference.
 
Steve

[chrisby]

Actually, both.  The AEX-N causes dropouts and stutters when used with some DACs due to it's jitter-rich output.
 
As far as the smearing, there does seem to be a synergy thing between some digital outputs and DACs.  I suspect that of those who try both Toslink wired and AEX wireless, some will say no difference and some will say big difference.
 
Steve

Steve- thanks for that - it could well explain something I'm experiencing with one of my rigs. Is there any way to determine or guess which DACs wouldn't have this issue? (i.e. is it a function of the receiver or converter chip?)  In my case it's a CityPulse 7.2X  (CS8416 / TI PCM1796) which with,  other than the drop-outs, I'm quite happy.   

However, for other reasons, this particular system will be revised in the next few months, and now would be a good time to start shopping if a different DAC will solve this annoyance.  This particular system is not for serious active listening, and will be dedicated to iTunes from MBPro/AEX, so input flexibility and ultimate sonics are not critical - which should hopefully keep the cost down. 

suggestions anyone?


edit:

FWIW, inspired by Steve's last line in above comment, I took a short break to conduct a highly scientific double blind ABX test  to try to detect the difference.  In this specific case (based on very small range of program material selected for known soundstage dimension and imaging characteristics, of artists I've heard perform live), there's definitely some not so subtle differences.

The particular loudspeakers are a dual driver system, one of which is upward firing and produces a very spacious and wide soundstage, while the forward facing driver delivers quite acceptable lateral imaging. In any case, both their characteristics and the music are very familiar. 
Anyways switching from the direct output of MacBook's minitoslink output to the AEX results in compression of width and depth of soundstage from the normal case of well beyond and behind the speakers, as well as an overall veiling, and smearing of otherwise well defined spacing between image location of 3-part female vocal harmonics.

but damn, doesn't that cable defeat the whole purpose of using the AirPort 

however, my earlier question remains..

anyone?

[Mike Nomad]

Yes, I've read new AE have higher jitter, however I was under the impression that resulted in drop-out when playing and during transitions between songs, but wasn't aware that would impact overall sound quality.

Let me address this from another angle -- I'd be interested in hearing from others what your experience has been with the n-spec Airport Express and if you've noticed a difference in audio quality vs using a direct wired connection.

I brought this up on another thread a few days ago, and Steve was very helpful (thanks again). Using a Wireless N unit, I experience drop outs when using the optical out to connect to my Peachtree Audio Nova (Sabre chipset). The drop outs are throughout tracks, not just between them.

Peachtree is aware of the problem (not that it's their problem. the Nova handles Non-garbage In just fine), and have done a firmware mod to the second set (S/PDIF Input 2 _AND_ Toslink Input 2) of digital inputs. All units currently ship with the mod done.

The mod reduced my dropout problem by ~95%. The sound quality is cr@p. The AE actually sounds better using the analog out. When connecting I use an optical cable to connect one of my Macs directly to the Nova, sound is much improved (and there's no jitter problem).

[srb]

I don't know if it's a function of the receiver chip - the 8416 is widely used in many DACs.  The City Pulse 7.2X is now the first DAC that I have heard has dropout problems with the AEX-N, beside the ESS Sabre DACs.
 
The Peachtree Nova and the Eastern Electric Minimax DACs both had dropouts with the AEX-N and both were confirmed to work well with the AEX-G.  I haven't heard any reports about the AEX-N used with the Wyred4Sound ESS Sabre DACs yet.
 
David Solomon of SignalPath/Peachtree said that the software modified digital input #2 on the Nova had its jitter acceptance aperature value increased, and that it did not sound as good as the unmodified digital input #1, but still sounded good.  However, Mike Nomad has found that in his setup, the modified input had much poorer sound quality.
 
I don't know if the AEX-G, which should cure any dropout related problems, might also produce a better sound quality from its Toslink output as well.  I think it would be worth it to borrow or buy an older G unit to test this.  The older ones usually sell for $30-$40 used.  If you're using the AEX only for remote music and not as your main router, the G speed is fine.
 
I have three AEX-N that I am using with a wireless G router, so that is my effective speed and I have no problems.  However, all three are being used with their analog output whose quality is quite acceptable for these three remote casual locations.
 
Steve

[low.pfile]

I just want to add that I've had dropouts using a AirPort Express (802.11g version) as well. So the older AE may not solve cody69's problem.

My AE has been connected to both a Monarchy NM24 DAC and a Denon 4306 AVR via toslink. I have 3 AE and it happens with analog out of the AE also. Just random interruptions during itunes playback. I switched to hardwired for my main system, but the AEs are for background audio systems.

BTW iTunes source via both MacBook Pro with N and a older G5 PowerMac with G.

[mathgeek97]

I'm currently using an AEX-N with iTunes running on a PC on another floor.  No dropouts into a Denon 3808CI receiver.
I ordered an AVA Vision DAC about a month ago.  It has a Wolfson 8742 chip.  I'm hoping I'll have better luck than the ESS Sabre DAC folks have had with the AEX-N.  Hopefully I'll be able to report on that sometime in the very near future.  I haven't noticed anybody else with this combo, so it looks like I might be the guinea pig on this one...

I thought of one thing to check if you're running iTunes on a Mac.  Make sure that your iTunes volume is set to 100%, otherwise you're not really getting things sent out accurately to the AEX.

[skunark]

I thought of one thing to check if you're running iTunes on a Mac.  Make sure that your iTunes volume is set to 100%, otherwise you're not really getting things sent out accurately to the AEX.

Better yet, just disable iTunes volume control on remote speakers.

[cody69]

I thought of one thing to check if you're running iTunes on a Mac.  Make sure that your iTunes volume is set to 100%, otherwise you're not really getting things sent out accurately to the AEX.

Good suggestion... I actually made that mistake when I connected up the mac mini in my main listening room. That made me think that perhaps I was missing a basic setting and doing something like accidentally using the DAC contained in the AE instead of the outboard MF V-DAC.

[rsa]

This particular system is not for serious active listening, and will be dedicated to iTunes from MBPro/AEX, so input flexibility and ultimate sonics are not critical - which should hopefully keep the cost down. 

suggestions anyone?

Put a Monarchy Audio DIP Classic between the AX and the DAC? The Classic is discontinued, but shows up on audiogon from time-to-time.

My digital correction engine (Perpetual Technologies P-1A w/SOCS) didn't have an optical input to directly accept the AX's digital out, so I used a DIP Classic as a quality optical-to-coax converter and lucked into its extra benefits. I'm not really a A-B'er, but I was very happy with the combination and don't remember being bothered by other than the very occasional dropout (DAC was a ModWright'd P-3A).

Stewart

[mathgeek97]

I'm currently using an AEX-N with iTunes running on a PC.
I ordered an AVA Vision DAC about a month ago.  It has a Wolfson 8742 chip.  I'm hoping I'll have better luck than the ESS Sabre DAC folks have had with the AEX-N.

No dropouts at all into the AVA Vision EC DAC.  Oh, and the sound is very musical and nice!