[Napalm]

I have the option to use C2 Error COrrection with both of my DVD-RW drives on my main computer.  The option is in Exact Audio Copy, and it runs a test to verify that your CD-ROM's or DVD drives support it, which both mine do.  So I am confused - are you saying with Audio CD's that error correction isn't supported with DVD and CD-ROM drives?
[...]

With audio CDs, the errors are corrected by "guessing" (interpolating) the bits that couldn't be read. In extreme situation, you can even have sector skipping/repeating.

With data CDs, the extra ECC code allows for  exactly determining the correct value of the bits that couldn't be read (provided that these bad bits are not too many).

Here is a simple explanation:

http://stason.org/TULARC/pc/cd-recordable/2-17-Why-don-t-audio-CDs-use-error-correction.html

Nap. 

[cacophony777]

Sorry if I missed it, but where's the evidence that higher end CD players have fewer errors when reading CDs?

[werd]

Sorry if I missed it, but where's the evidence that higher end CD players have fewer errors when reading CDs?

go look yourself cacophony777, are you asking because you have looked and cant find the answer or are you trying to badger? Don't let Nuance's tactics on posting sway you. There is so much information on this out there its hard not to even stumble upon it.

[jsalk]

Sorry if I missed it, but where's the evidence that higher end CD players have fewer errors when reading CDs?

I think this is a good question.  If there is valid evidence, a link or two from a reliable source would be quite helpful.

Another question I would have is how many errors in a given period of time would be audible (I rather doubt a single error in one bit would be audible at all) and how often would this likely happen with a lower cost player?

When ripping CD's off the type of transport (inexpensive) found in an average computer, I sometimes compare the ripped copy to the original CD and I don't recall ever having any errors detected.

And a third question I have relates to the number of companies producing the actual transport mechanisms.  There probably aren't that many and what separates the best from the rest?  As I imagine the output is buffered and clocked, what differences would you see at the digital outputs?

As for the test, I can certainly put the stock power supply on a separate electrical circuit.  If this is not acceptable either, it wouldn't seem as if an upgraded power supply would do any good since I (and probably most everyone else) probably have 20 of the "bad" types spread throughout my house (and I assume my neighbors do too).

- Jim

[cacophony777]

go look yourself cacophony777, are you asking because you have looked and cant find the answer or are you trying to badger? Don't let Nuance's tactics on posting sway you. There is so much information on this out there its hard not to even stumble upon it.

Yes I looked, and no I couldn't find anything. Can you post a link? You shouldn't interpret my query for evidence as badgering. I'm just trying to learn here.

[mchuckp]

As for the test, I can certainly put the stock power supply on a separate electrical circuit.  If this is not acceptable either, it wouldn't seem as if an upgraded power supply would do any good since I (and probably most everyone else) probably have 20 of the "bad" types spread throughout my house (and I assume my neighbors do too).

- Jim

Jim's comment is what I was wondering.  At my main set up, I've got all my audio components going into one power conditioner and video/other into another.  I have plenty of switching power sources from a phone, modem, and router running into the same wall jack but separated via different conditioners.  Is getting an upgrading power supply not going to render me positive results because I have this other stuff here?

[eclein]

I read Jim's post also and I've had time today so I goofed around a bit and put everything back the way it was originally as far as PS goes and the linear PS still made an immediate improvement when I added it back in the mix. I'm not disagreeing with anything anyone is saying here just for me in my apartment with all my gear in a power strip going to one outlet and all my PC stuff-router,cable modem,etc-going to another outlet as Wayne from Bolder suggested to me early on...I get sonic improvement.
 I'm sure my outlets are on the same circuit as they are in the same room just different spots on the wall, and I totally understand what Jim is saying...I just know what I'm hearing and I hear more depth, better clarity, and more low frequency response with a linear power supply.
 Anyway...as they say "your results may vary"

[Mudslide]

go look yourself cacophony777, are you asking because you have looked and cant find the answer or are you trying to badger? Don't let Nuance's tactics on posting sway you. There is so much information on this out there its hard not to even stumble upon it.

Werd,

What you have "out there" is a lot of judgmental reviewing such as the referenced article by Scott Fowler...such as your 'hear'-say evidence about the performance of various speakers in different rooms at the Capital show.  While it is interesting reading for us hobbyists, what is lacking is a decent DBT scientific study that controls for all variables and then actually measures what some people think they can hear with regard to the issues being discussed in this thread.  Simple scope measurements of jitter or power signals say nothing about audibility, much less "quality" (a subjective comparative) of sound...no more than a FR graph tells you what a speaker sounds like.

Cacophony and Jim (willing to run a controlled test himself) have valid concerns and await more proof and less opinion.  If you have such a peer reviewed study to refer us to, we'd be glad to read it.

And eclein, while I was typing this, I saw that you posted your test.  It too is quite interesting.  But please remember that auditory memory is the shortest of all our senses to recall with accuracy.  Unless you were able to switch instantly and blindly, test after auditory test has shown that human bias interferes with our experience.

[eclein]

I most definitely could be biased, that is why I think Jim's test would be cool...because I don't doubt the auditory memory thing comes into play...good stuff. 

[jsalk]

I read Jim's post also and I've had time today so I goofed around a bit and put everything back the way it was originally as far as PS goes and the linear PS still made an immediate improvement when I added it back in the mix. I'm not disagreeing with anything anyone is saying here just for me in my apartment with all my gear in a power strip going to one outlet and all my PC stuff-router,cable modem,etc-going to another outlet as Wayne from Bolder suggested to me early on...I get sonic improvement.
 I'm sure my outlets are on the same circuit as they are in the same room just different spots on the wall, and I totally understand what Jim is saying...I just know what I'm hearing and I hear more depth, better clarity, and more low frequency response with a linear power supply.
 Anyway...as they say "your results may vary"

Are you listening to the analog outs or running the digital outs into an outboard DAC?

- Jim

[eclein]

Digital outs to a DAC....I firmly believe I may be expecting a change so of course I'm hearing one, thats why your test would be good to find out if I'm "really" hearing what I think I am...but others are hearing it also, and seemed to have bailed out on me here..LOL!!!

[coke]

This thread is making me wonder how much of an impact the 750 W power supply on my computer is having on my sound system. 

It's on the same circuit and in the same room as all of my audio equipment.  I think i'll have to experiment tonight and see if there's any noticeable difference.

 

[eclein]

Read post #3 in this thread:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=80949.0
I was just thinking-dangerous I know-and thought I'd bring some other posts in to help support my experience.
 

[rollo]

  Lets say the room is acoustically sound. A speaker will only be as good as the components before them. Garbage in garbage out. Lets consider a fine system of class "A" rated components against a receiver. The speaker will only be able to reproduce its feed. Now take the class "A" CDP out of the chain and say insert a cheap sony CDP. It will not sound the same.
   The source IMO is the most important. Speakers second amp third and the preamp last. The preamp will tie it all together. My two cents.


charles

[Mudslide]

This thread is making me wonder how much of an impact the 750 W power supply on my computer is having on my sound system. 

It's on the same circuit and in the same room as all of my audio equipment.  I think i'll have to experiment tonight and see if there's any noticeable difference.

   Hey Brandon.  Don't forget to check for florescent light balasts, refrigerator motors, bathroom fans, and whatnots when looking for those pesky RFI bleeders.

Eclein, we all have unique stories to tell with unique sets of ears and expectations.  Anecdotal reports and their subsequent subjective findings belong in the "hey, this is fun...try it category"...but do not necessarily belong in the "fact" file. 

[werd]

  Hey Brandon.  Don't forget to check for florescent light balasts, refrigerator motors, bathroom fans, and whatnots when looking for those pesky RFI bleeders.

Eclein, we all have unique stories to tell with unique sets of ears and expectations.  Anecdotal reports and their subsequent subjective findings belong in the "hey, this is fun...try it category"...but do not necessarily belong in the "fact" file.

And yet these unique sets of ears and expectations are suppose to make sense out a dbt test........ dbt and bt tests are for pozers....  Just do an A/B test, if you don't like the way it sounds then don't buy an outboard supply 
You can spend all day or all week doing an A/b test. Learn how to be confident on what you like. Doing tests on the premise that you dont know what component is, thats so lame.

[Mudslide]

And yet these unique sets of ears and expectations are suppose to make sense out a dbt test........ dbt and bt tests are for pozers....  Just do an A/B test, if you don't like the way it sounds then don't buy an outboard supply 
You can spend all day or all week doing an A/b test. Learn how to be confident on what you like. Doing tests on the premise that you dont know what component is, thats so lame.

Pozers?  You mean like in your hearing different music, different drive gear, and different speakers in different rooms at a show and 'factually' stating that Salk and AVA were disappointing compared to other manufacturers at the show?     That is the specific kind of baloney that DBT's and BT's are meant to shine the light of truth on.  Understanding the difference between opinion and fact is what is necessary if one wants to enlighten oneself in this hobby.

Are such tests necessary before buying something?  No.  Are they necessary before trying to sell someone on a thing or making absolutist statements about it?  Yes. 

Werd, did you buy the first set of speakers you "liked"?  Or did you audition speakers and compare them before buying?   

[Nuance]

Digital outs to a DAC....I firmly believe I may be expecting a change so of course I'm hearing one, thats why your test would be good to find out if I'm "really" hearing what I think I am...but others are hearing it also, and seemed to have bailed out on me here..LOL!!!

I am not bailing on ya!   I heard the differences,  but only when using the analogs.  Once I moved to digital coax the differences diminished.  Again, when I have time I will compare again, though.

Werd,

Quit flapping your gums and post a link that involves the audibility of what you're pushing.  You are so full of crap that even the pigs can smell it.

Proof of the validity of DBT's is out there; proof of what werd is shoveling is not.  The guy can't even post a link to back his opinion. You guys do the math.

I look forward to your blind listening session Jim.  Has anyone volunteered to be on the panel yet? 

[Wayne1]

It appears more people on this thread prefer to talk than to try.

It does not take a lot of time to temporally unplug most of the switching power supplies from your house and then listen to your system for some time. Plug them all back in and listen again.

If you do not trust your ears and need a visual readout to confirm what you hear, go buy a surplus line monitor that will show you what your AC looks like.

Why do you think some people prefer battery power systems over AC. It is not because batteries are "better". It is because they are isolating their system from all the switching noise being shoved into their lines from all the little wall warts. Again, try unplugging a few and see if it sounds better.

I believe there was a report from someone who stated they replaced the PS to their router with a linear and the sound improved.

I will agree that if your AC line is filled with noise, one linear may not help. It depends on how much noise that switcher you replace is producing. The switcher that comes with the SB is a major polluter. All of you that own one, try pulling it out, even when listening to CDs, DVDs, TV, Radio, whatever and see if things sound better. If you reduce the noise, by even a little bit, it should make an improvement. Replacing as many switchers with linears will make even more improvement. They can be bought for not very much money. The PE linear than eclein uses is a prime example.

Personally, I would not want to have a computer in the same room as my system. That is why I like the SB system which allow me to isolate the computer in a separate area of the house and on a separate leg with multiple isolation devices in between.

Have fun with your AB/X and "scientific" tests. I use my system to listen to music for enjoyment. I insert a new component in the system and listen for a few days. Then I switch back and play some of the same music. If I hear an improvement in the music, that component stays. Quick A/B tests highlight differences, not necessarily improvements. Extended listening is needed for that, for me.

If any of you have any more questions about power supplies or the SB systems, please drop into my circle and ask away.

[Scott F.]

What you have "out there" is a lot of judgmental reviewing such as the referenced article by Scott Fowler...

...uuum, if you want to take my name in vain, at least get the spelling correct....it's FALLER 


That said, I'm staying clear of this A/B DBT conversation....I know better.