I'm becoming a convert

drphoto · « **on:** 15 Jun 2010, 04:13 am »

Despite my last than ideal setup at the moment, humming Grado (actually, not that bad) and less than ideal VTA due to lack of shims for Rega arm, I'm finding there is a naturalness to the mids that is hard to beat.

My digital setup spanks the TT in a lot of areas, but when I listen to the digital now...I find myself getting annoyed. There is a hardness to the upper mids I never really noticed before, which I think is what some people call 'grain'.

I listened to a couple of LP all the way through last night and enjoyed the hell out of it.

I've narrowed cart choice down to Denon DL-160 or the Ortofon 2M Blue. Supposed to be pretty similar w/ Denon having a huge soundstage (which I'd love) but the Ortofon having better detail, easy to setup and a much higher output. Might have to flip a coin.

gonna get the shims for VTA and Waynes setup kit too.

SET Man · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 Jun 2010, 04:42 am »

Hey!

Yup, that how I feel about CD

It's just sound unnatural to me. And most of the time the upper mid to the high sound annoying to me.... even play through of the high priced CD playback system I've heard.

I've read some where... it was in Stereophile... "The best way to enjoy digital is to never listen to analog" That's so true, especially with Redbook CD.

Take care,
Buddy

JakeJ · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 Jun 2010, 04:59 am »

Excellent, drphoto. Once you get those little items and get the arm/cartridge geometries dialed in you'll be a happy camper.

Down the road when you feel you can afford it you might consider a Pete Riggle VTAF kit. Heres a link to his website: http://www.vtaf.com/ These are the bees knees for Rega arms and allow you adjust VTA while playing an album. You can actually hear the changes occuring.

Keep us posted on your progress and any setbacks. We all just wanna help.

Jake

drphoto · « **Reply #3 on:** 15 Jun 2010, 05:09 am »

Oh yeah, I've already been to the Riggle site.

I know I'm a bit OCD. This vinyl thing is going to end up costing me a kidney.

JakeJ · « **Reply #4 on:** 15 Jun 2010, 05:19 am »

Yeah, part and parcel with the hobby. For what I have invested in I could probably have a nice BMW or Audi but I'm not sure I'd enjoy them as much
Just try not to donate the kidney all in one day.

Sonny · « **Reply #5 on:** 15 Jun 2010, 05:45 am »

You guys are great!

I feel the same way, though I think my digital front end, Marantz SA11S2, is very sweet...there's something about my vinyl set up that I can't wait to put on a side...
It's more work, what with the cleaning of every record before I can play it on the system (initial cleansing)...I still enjoy it...and though sometimes some LPs sounds horrible, I still prefer it....

T

JakeJ · « **Reply #6 on:** 15 Jun 2010, 07:24 am »

When I upgraded (early 90's) to a SOTA Sapphire from my trusty old Denon DP-30L the SQ was leaps and bounds better. Tha first generation SOTA developed motor problems and SOTA offered me what I had paid for it used in trade towards a new Gen 5 table. That was around 1996. SQ is slightly better mostly due to better motor and speed control. In 1998 I made my first foray into digital with an Adcom CGD-750 redbook player. It never could hold a candle to the SOTA. Two years ago I picked up an SME M2-9 tonearm to replace the mediocre Graham Robin. I never would have guessed that a tonearm alone could make such an astounding difference. Clarity out the wazoo, the Robin was so veiled and I never even knew it. Bass became fuller yet tighter, soundstage got bigger in all dimensions, treble is smoother and cymbals, triangle and the like just hang in air floating like the real deal. Cartridge is a Lyra Lydian Beta through all these changes.

Last year I upgraded my digital front-end to a Perpetual Technologies stack, the P3a DAC and P1a Digital Engine. The DAC has the top of the line Modwright upgrade and they came with the Revelation Audio Labs I2S cryo silver cable which makes a significant improvement over other cables I tried. I just yesterday I cut a deal for the Monolithic Sound P3 one-box power supply with Revelation Audio Labs cryo silver power umbilicals. The kit is rounded out by the addition of a CEC TL-51X belt drive transport. Thanks to Mr. Pig for the recs because this definitely brought my digital playback into the reference level the rest of my system is at.

So you see Doc, it's easy to donate that kidney over more than a decade. After you finish school you'll be ready to dive headlong into the upgrade whirlpool of analog and audio in general. Hope I'm here to see you through it all.

Jake

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #7 on:** 15 Jun 2010, 07:58 am »

Sound is vibration. Digital is being asked to do that. Could something be lost in the translation? Want a fine painting or a fine copy of a fine painting? When it matters, you gotta endure some analog hassles and noise, maybe, but that's life. I know what yer thinking. Playback is all reproduction, anyway. Hey, I hear ya. My digital is bad ass, no complaints, but for serious listening, and to serious music, I return to analog. You'd have to be here. Could be just me, maybe, but we could see.

SteveFord · « **Reply #8 on:** 15 Jun 2010, 10:15 am »

Yep, you're doomed!

JakeJ · « **Reply #9 on:** 15 Jun 2010, 02:07 pm »

Member Mr. Pig (John Hoffman) has recently returned to the world of analog and despite the hassles he is enduring I know he's happy that he did.

A bit more fidgeting and finagling and he will have his TT, arm, and cartridge combo making beautiful music and doing so with just that slight edge over his digital setup. I know it's true 'cause he's buying more vinyl now.
Drphoto, your diligence and frustration will pay off in the end.

95Dyna · « **Reply #10 on:** 15 Jun 2010, 02:18 pm »

Quote from: jimdgoulding on 15 Jun 2010, 07:58 am

Sound is vibration. Digital is being asked to do that. Could something be lost in the translation? Want a fine painting or a fine copy of a fine painting? When it matters, you gotta endure some analog hassles and noise, maybe, but that's life. I know what yer thinking. Playback is all reproduction, anyway. Hey, I hear ya. My digital is bad ass, no complaints, but for serious listening, and to serious music, I return to analog. You'd have to be here. Shit if I know. Could be just me, maybe. We would see.

My sentiments exactly, Jim. I could never quite understand why you would want to take a perfectly good analog sine wave, try to represent it with a sequence of on and off electrical pulses then devise a contraption to take that representation and convert it back to a less than perfect analog sine wave for listening. It's even worse than a copy of a fine painting. This is taking a copy of a fine painting and trying to reconstruct the original from the copy. Why not just stick with the original

.

jimdgoulding · « **Reply #11 on:** 15 Jun 2010, 02:43 pm »

Your signature cracks me up.

drphoto · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Jun 2010, 12:07 am »

It all seems pretty sublime. I would think 98% of casual listeners would prefer the digital. (mine is good, maybe not SOTA, but very good) Hell, I like it better for the first minute or so.

Of course the variablity of disk is huge. Yes there are good and bad CD's. But w/ vinyl, they can go from sounding like something akin to AM radio....to glorious.

I think that maybe another CD advantage. Even the worst ones are at least ok. Dumb it down, perhaps?

kingdeezie · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 Jun 2010, 12:44 am »

Vinyl is pretty great huh?

My digital sounds pretty good; but my vinyl has an openness that is hard to describe.

Glad you are enjoying your decision.

drphoto · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 Jun 2010, 07:38 am »

I just came back from the local record store w/ some used vinyl.

The Police's "Ghost' & "Regatta" sound supurb. I'm in heaven. I don't think I've ever heard my rig sound as nice. (despite my less than ideal setup) For $5/ea. Gotta love it.

Oh....Denon DL-160 on the way, along w/ Rega shim for VTA and Spin Clean device. Also getting Mapleshade maple platform and Isoblocks.

On the other hand I got Genesis' "Wind and Wuthering" and it sounds dreadful. Thin, flat....totally AM radio sound.

royphil345 · « **Reply #15 on:** 16 Jun 2010, 07:44 am »

The DL-160 shold be awesome! I've heard some rips done with them and was very impressed. I have one on my list eventually. I have the Ortofon Blue and I don't think it's as detailed sounding as some people say. It reminds me a bit of a Shure M97xE, but with a stronger high end. Really nice balance. There's a little "thickness" to the mids and it can sound very smooth. I like listening to it a lot. I don't think it's as transparent or detailed sounding as my Audio Technicas though.

Elizabeth · « **Reply #16 on:** 16 Jun 2010, 08:46 am »

drphoto: If you find an LP with that flat dead sound, it may be the prior owner damaged it. They might have played it with a really worn stylus and carved off all the HF.

JakeJ · « **Reply #17 on:** 16 Jun 2010, 12:23 pm »

It could also be VTA. Every cartridge is different and I suspect when you get the rest of your dial-in tools you will be spinnin' vinyl way more often.

sts9fan · « **Reply #18 on:** 16 Jun 2010, 12:49 pm »

Drphoto: Your posts got me listening to my TT again. Thanks!

woodsyi · « **Reply #19 on:** 16 Jun 2010, 01:00 pm »

Sounds to be like you are already converted.

What phono stage are you using?