Copper Plating Aluminum???

Bear · « **on:** 5 Jun 2010, 12:17 am »

I recently got a Technics SL 1200 mkII that I want do some mods/refurb on. I would like to copper plate the aluminum portion of the plinth, anyone know of a good method or company that can do this? Any thoughts on how this might turn out or issues that might arise?

Thanks For the input.

*Scotty* · « **Reply #1 on:** 5 Jun 2010, 01:06 am »

Bear,This might be a silly question,but why do you want to plate the aluminum part of the plinth with copper?
Scotty

Bear · « **Reply #2 on:** 5 Jun 2010, 01:48 am »

Quote from: *Scotty* on 5 Jun 2010, 01:06 am

Bear,This might be a silly question,but why do you want to plate the aluminum part of the plinth with copper?
Scotty

Purely cosmetic......I could just polish it and be done with it i suppose. Or maybe just have it anodized. I may in fact be silly for me to pursue the copper plating....but I had a vision and I think the vision looks cool, the final product however?

Shane

*Scotty* · « **Reply #3 on:** 5 Jun 2010, 02:36 am »

I suspect that you may be able to have this done by someone who chrome plates auto parts. They should be able to copper plate the plinth for you.
Scotty

jules · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 Jun 2010, 03:04 am »

Might not be possible but check with a plater. I have a feeling this won't work for electrochemical reasons. I don't think copper and aluminium agree with each other over time.

You might be able to get it anodized in a copper colour though. Anodizing is a process that fixes colour in a thin surface layer of deliberately created aluminium oxide.

jules

*Scotty* · « **Reply #5 on:** 5 Jun 2010, 08:37 pm »

Chrome plated aluminum trim and bumpers have been in use for a number of years. The first metal layer that is plated on the aluminum is nickel then the chrome is plated on. It shouldn't be a problem to plate a layer of copper over the nickel in place of the chrome layer.
The question is will a business that chrome plates steel and aluminum car parts be willing to do a copper plating job and how much will they charge.
Scotty

Bear · « **Reply #6 on:** 5 Jun 2010, 09:18 pm »

Quote from: *Scotty* on 5 Jun 2010, 08:37 pm

plate a layer of copper over the nickel in place of the chrome layer.
The question is will a business that chrome plates steel and aluminum car parts be willing to do a copper plating job and how much will they charge.
Scotty

The other question will be how much thickness it will add to the plinth, not sure how much clearance their is between the plinth and platter. I'll have to check tomorrow and call some local platers.

Vinyl-Addict · « **Reply #7 on:** 5 Jun 2010, 09:40 pm »

Quote from: Bear on 5 Jun 2010, 09:18 pm

The other question will be how much thickness it will add to the plinth, not sure how much clearance their is between the plinth and platter. I'll have to check tomorrow and call some local platers.

Keep in mind that any imperfections in the present surface finish will become even more evident after plating.
Another important issue is whether there are any close tolerance "fits" with the platter because there will be a change in overall thickness, not much, but it could pose a problem when you try to reassemble it.

Wayner · « **Reply #8 on:** 5 Jun 2010, 10:06 pm »

First of all, the plinth of the SL1200 is painted, so you will have to strip that off of the aluminum. Second, I have to ask why? Copper will tarnish and get a green patina if it is not clear-coated. This is the natural process of copper aging. Hate to be the negative guy here, but.........

Wayner

Bear · « **Reply #9 on:** 5 Jun 2010, 10:19 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 5 Jun 2010, 10:06 pm

First of all, the plinth of the SL1200 is painted, so you will have to strip that off of the aluminum. Second, I have to ask why? Copper will tarnish and get a green patina if it is not clear-coated. This is the natural process of copper aging. Hate to be the negative guy here, but.........

Wayner

Agreed, the current finish has seen better days and needs updating anyway. As for the patina I have not decided if I would/will clearcote or allow to patina. The latter will require frequent polishing. May be more trouble and cost than worth but im exploring the option as I like the idea of the bright copper finish.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://blog.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/20%2520Dodge.jpg&imgrefurl=http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2007/02/14/copperhead/&h=297&w=450&sz=40&tbnid=qmRrz1WX5KRxmM:&tbnh=84&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcopper%2Bcar&hl=en&usg=__OB7kh_Y4dJ-R3ISdLXyzDiT9dBQ=&sa=X&ei=o80KTNyWNZrQMp_r0bUE&ved=0CCcQ9QEwAg

*Scotty* · « **Reply #10 on:** 6 Jun 2010, 02:03 am »

The plinth could be easily repainted with auto-body paint and you could have virtually any color imaginable including the color changing type of paint with no worries about the finish oxidizing and turning green.
Paint is your friend.
Scotty

Napalm · « **Reply #11 on:** 6 Jun 2010, 02:12 am »

http://www.kuntz.com/

Will cost you some though.

Nap.

rawdata · « **Reply #12 on:** 6 Jun 2010, 02:25 am »

Why not glue down copper sheeting over the existing finish? Seems like that would be cheaper.....

Elizabeth · « **Reply #13 on:** 6 Jun 2010, 10:54 am »

Motorcycle folks do a LOT of plating on motorcycles, and so the places that do this are all over.
and the places that do this stuff will polish and plate nearly anything made of metal. They can polish the part, removing the clearcoat, or any paint. They can cover a bushing so it does not get plated. They can polish it to be perfect, then plate it.
And because they always do little, odd stuff for individuals, the work is not too expensive.

S Clark · « **Reply #14 on:** 6 Jun 2010, 02:07 pm »

Just based on chemical reactivity, Al should replace Cu in solution. Therefore, you will get a weakly bonded copper plating just by putting the Al part in a solution of most copper compounds. Get some CuSO4 (copper sulfate crystals) dissolve in distilled water, and soak a test part overnight. It may well be all you need to do. To increase the rate, you can add a bit of copper (a pre 1984 penny) at one electrode and the platter at the other using DC current.

Oops. I just did a bit of reading, and the copper deposited as I suggested just doesn't really stick. You will have to use a more complex process.

richidoo · « **Reply #15 on:** 6 Jun 2010, 02:38 pm »

Copper paints:

http://www.andek.com/hans/DataSheet/dsheets_roofing/RoofdxCopper.html

http://www.krylon.com/products/premium_metallic/

Bear · « **Reply #16 on:** 6 Jun 2010, 03:16 pm »

Quote from: Elizabeth on 6 Jun 2010, 10:54 am

Motorcycle folks do a LOT of plating on motorcycles, and so the places that do this are all over.
and the places that do this stuff will polish and plate nearly anything made of metal. They can polish the part, removing the clearcoat, or any paint. They can cover a bushing so it does not get plated. They can polish it to be perfect, then plate it.
And because they always do little, odd stuff for individuals, the work is not too expensive.

Excellent idea...may be able to find one who has worked with copper before, clearly copper and aluminum doe not mix well unless the aluminum is zincated. It appears that this process may be complex and expensive, therefore going nowhere. If it does I will post pics. I'll call some plating and Harley shops Monday.

Photon46 · « **Reply #17 on:** 6 Jun 2010, 03:42 pm »

As someone who works with copper plate every day in a printmaking studio, I can assure you that copper plating is a poor choice for finish longevity unless clearcoated. If left without an overcoat, you'd be polishing it every day to keep it pristine. Copper starts to tarnish within a matter of minutes when left open to the atmosphere. You'd be wearing the plating away rapidly with this much polishing though, copper is very soft and easily damaged. I think the anodizing or auto paint route is going to give you more satisfactory results.

sts9fan · « **Reply #18 on:** 6 Jun 2010, 08:27 pm »

I had an Khartago with the copper anodized faceplate. It looked dope. Copper plating is a bad idea as others have stated. Copper sulfate will very slowly etch aluminum. With a little NaCl as a catalyst it will etch quickly and safely. I am gonna etech a large panel for my pre this way.

Poindexter · « **Reply #19 on:** 7 Jun 2010, 03:36 am »

Bear, this looks very possible to me. In normal vehicle-style chrome plating, the piece is first copper flashed (chemical depositation), then electroplated copper, then nickel flashed, then nickel electroplated, several coats with polishing in between. This is where show chrome comes from; the care and craftsmanship in the polishing of the nickel. The final step is a quick chrome electrodip.

It looks to me like it's just a case of having the shop do the multiplating and polishing with the copper, and go no farther. They may even already know how to do this. The critical question then becomes whether the copper flash will stick to aluminum, rather than the usual steel.

How you figga?

Poinz