Two subs or not two subs? That is the question.

Ryanz · « **on:** 31 May 2010, 02:57 am »

Hello all,

I have the chance to pick up another Paradigm Ultracube 10" subwoofer for $500, half the price of what I payed for my first one. I already have one in my system now. My question is, is there a significant benefit to having two subwoofers?

Thanks,
Ryan

Napalm · « **Reply #1 on:** 31 May 2010, 03:16 am »

Depends whom you ask.... In my stereo system I have none.... but just wait until Mag steps in.....

Nap.

Ryanz · « **Reply #2 on:** 31 May 2010, 03:25 am »

I imagine this is more of an HT question. I'll post it in there as well.

Napalm · « **Reply #3 on:** 31 May 2010, 03:33 am »

Quote from: Ryanz on 31 May 2010, 03:25 am

I imagine this is more of an HT question. I'll post it in there as well.

It applies to stereo as well. But while in HT a sub is a necessity, with stereo opinions will vary.

Nap.

Ryanz · « **Reply #4 on:** 31 May 2010, 04:24 am »

You're right. I guess if you have speakers that don't produce it properly you have to get it some where. I've never used it while listening to the stereo before. I'm a bypass type of a fellow. Is it best to have the sub next to the towers or in the rear? Or does it absolutely depend on the room characteristics?

shuteye · « **Reply #5 on:** 31 May 2010, 05:01 am »

I'm living with full range speakers with subs right behind them, in a two channel system. Do I love the sound? Very much so, with a Bryston active Sub10 crossover. Never tried one sub, so for what it's worth, never tried one sub. From what I've read, the lower you can go regarding crossover frequency, the less the impact of one vs. two. I don't want to have to compromise, so if the price is right, go for two.

JohnnyB · « **Reply #6 on:** 31 May 2010, 08:51 am »

Happy Memorial Day,

I use two Fathom F112's with my B&W 802D's. My SP2 PrePro is set to a crossover of 80Hz and 0 dB.

I used a calibrated RTA to set the subwoofer up so there is no apparent transition when used in both my HT and 2 Channel Stereo.

Cheers, JohnnyB

James Tanner · « **Reply #7 on:** 31 May 2010, 11:14 am »

Hi Ryanz,

Subs? - boy lots to consider.

All rooms have 'standing waves' which affect bass response in any given room based on boundries and room dimensions. So the advantage of 2 subs is you can attempt to 'even out' the dips and peaks in the 'frequency response' in the room by careful placement. Some speaker manufacturers even recommend 3 to 4 subs to help tame the negative room nodes.

In Home Theater there is a .1 (point 1) channel which the recording engineer uses to add 'bass effects' to the soundtrack. So unless your main speakers are capable of very very low bass it is a good idea to have a subwoofer dedicated to this .1 channel. Also a dedicated .1 channel allows for better balance adjustment for soundtracks.

In stereo its the 'integration' of the sub or subs to the main stereo pair that takes priority and believe me that is not an easy task.

james

Phil A · « **Reply #8 on:** 31 May 2010, 12:48 pm »

Quote from: Ryanz on 31 May 2010, 04:24 am

You're right. I guess if you have speakers that don't produce it properly you have to get it some where. I've never used it while listening to the stereo before. I'm a bypass type of a fellow. Is it best to have the sub next to the towers or in the rear? Or does it absolutely depend on the room characteristics?

I have 4 subs in the main system. All Rels, which have a HT connection and also a speaker level connection with its own crossover and volume control. I use a RTA to make sure they are set-up properly. For stereo, I have 2 subs and they are crossed over at 22 HZ

john1970 · « **Reply #9 on:** 31 May 2010, 01:04 pm »

Ryan,

For stereo applications I would recommend two subwoofers. They tend to blend in better with the main system especially if you are using a high crossover frequency (80Hz or more). FYI, I run only a single JL Audio F113 sub with two large main speakers (VMPS RM40s). I use a Bryston 10B sub crossover at 40 Hz and I find the sub integrates quite well with the main system. However, I will be upgrading to a second sub once funds permit this fall.

Cheers,

John

Laundrew · « **Reply #10 on:** 31 May 2010, 03:39 pm »

I use a sub in my home theatre system. I did use a sub in my previous 2 channel system as I was only using a pair of Q1 KEF bookshelf speakers and they needed a little bit of help with the low end (the Q1s are a great sounding, little speaker).

I do not use a sub on my current 2 channel system and I think that my speakers are rated for around 32 Hz - I believe this to be a very conservative estimate by the speaker manufacturer.

Be well...

Ryanz · « **Reply #11 on:** 31 May 2010, 03:59 pm »

I have a pair of Paradigm Studio 100's v5, so I believe they're capable of producing adequate bass for my needs. Unfortunately, my living room is small and I have a hard time positioning them in the proper position for proper bass. And the same problem with the current Ultracube. I'm compensating for a poor listening space. Thanks for the feedback.

bpape · « **Reply #12 on:** 31 May 2010, 04:01 pm »

For HT use, if you can do 2 and you can place them where they need to be, dual subs can certainly enhance the experience as well as helping with smoothing frequency response.

Bryan

rajacat · « **Reply #13 on:** 31 May 2010, 04:14 pm »

Perhaps the question should be ......Two subs or four subs?

Four subs, randomly placed, will smooth out the bass response more than two.

http://www.audiokinesis.com/product_ak_swarm.html

-Roy

Ryanz · « **Reply #14 on:** 31 May 2010, 05:42 pm »

Quote from: rajacat on 31 May 2010, 04:14 pm

Perhaps the question should be ......Two subs or four subs?

Four subs, randomly placed, will smooth out the bass response more than two.

http://www.audiokinesis.com/product_ak_swarm.html

-Roy

I think my neighbors wouldn't appreciate four subs as much as I definetly would. Where would you even put four subs?

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #15 on:** 31 May 2010, 07:44 pm »

Quote from: Ryanz on 31 May 2010, 05:42 pm

I think my neighbors wouldn't appreciate four subs as much as I definetly would. Where would you even put four subs?

You might be surprised: 4 subs will be more neighbor-friendly as there will be less "boom" due to some room resonance being triggered. One sub = maximum potential for boom.

With 4, it is an advantage to vary positioning vertically, so they don't need to be littering the floor - one or two could be up the wall somehow. On top of a bookcase?

Ryanz · « **Reply #16 on:** 31 May 2010, 07:54 pm »

That makes sense. Alright, you guys have helped my out tremendously. I'll be picking up that sub tomorrow. Thanks for the advice and I'll let you know the outcome. I currently have my sub set to 70 for the crossover. Will I need to change it?

JRace · « **Reply #17 on:** 31 May 2010, 08:24 pm »

Not necessarily.

You will have 3 options:
1) Co-locate subs
-put the subs in the same location. Increases output, does not improve room irregularities.

2)Locate in different locations, both subs covering same frequency bands.
-easy to do, helps smooth out response, may cause other peaks and nulls. Best done with identical subs.

3)Locate in different locations, subs covering different frequency bands.
-harder to setup, best done with measurement equipment, best choice for smoothing out response. Can use different size/models of subs.

If you choose 1 or 2 then you shouldn;t have to adjust the xover point.

roscoeiii · « **Reply #18 on:** 31 May 2010, 08:27 pm »

You might also want to check out the book "Get Better Sound" for other set-up recommendations. Greatly improved the sound of my room.

Ryanz · « **Reply #19 on:** 1 Jun 2010, 04:16 am »

Nap - Option 3 sounds intriguing. I'm going to attempt it. Maybe I can get my dealer to loan me the tool. Okay. Dumb question. The SPL meter, right?

JRace - That book is going on my "Must Have" list. It's a pretty penny.