[diofan56]

Hi all!

I'm considering replacing two separate systems (HT and Audio) with one decent HT system.  I have been reading comments that music through an HT system will not sound as good as 2-channel audio.  I'm sure there is some truth to that but I'm not sure it is really that big of a deal if decent equipment is used.  I'm not an audiophile and can't afford high-dollar gear such as McIntosh.  What brand(s) would you recommend?  Receivers or separate processor and amp?

Dave

[Phil A]

I have 3 systems, main, bedroom and basement, all of different qualities and each is decent for both with the main system I'd day is as good as a separate 2-channel system but it is not inexpensive stuff.  If I were in your shoes I'd consider a preamp (new or used) with HT bypass for 2-channel use and build a system around that.

[ajzepp]

ill echo what Phil said about a stereo preamp with HT bypass.....made all the difference for me!

[diofan56]

Howdy!

I'm not sure I understand what you guys are saying.  Get a 2-channel preamp instead of an HT Processor?

Can you please give me a couple examples?  Manufacturers and model numbers please.

Dave

[evan1]

HT pre/pro front RCA outputs -> Stereo preamp HT bypass input jacks -> stereo preamp outputs -> power amplifier front RCA inputs

This way you can use the stereo preamp volume control for music sessions. For multichannel auditions turn on your HT pre/pro and select the HT bypass mode of your stereo preamp. This way this latter do not control the signal amplitude (attenuation or gain) and the HT preamp is in full control of the volume.
     

[evan1]

http://www.odysseyaudio.com/products-candela.html

http://www.modwright.com/products/3

[low.pfile]

diofan, can you give us your current systems (amp + speakers + source) to see what needs to be improved upon? Also your budget. same as existing gear....more or less?

Also,  I would suggest that instead of everyone just throwing out specific models of gear, it would be more useful for you to understanding the principal of using a separate preamp with amp for music mated with a AV Reciever. That is only one way.

cheers,
ed

[eclein]

diofan-I use a 7.1 av receiver(Sony STR DH800-like $399 new a year ago) in a 5.1 setup and love multi-channel sound. My particular receiver allows using the rear two channels to bi-amp the front mains-so each front speaker has separate high freq. and low freq. signals and it was a game changer-something to consider. There are a lot of inexpensive AV receivers now and to be honest I love the fact that the sound is all around me-very immersive..but hey thats me.
 If I had it to do over again, I'd most likely buy just about the same stuff as I have now, I lucked into my setup mostly by chance and I'm enjoying it. The folks here have given me great advice..

[ted_b]

I have a dedicated 2 channel, a dedicated 5.1 music surround and a dedicated 7.1 movie surround system all in the same room, all controlled separately, and using different surround speakers, etc (i.e signal path is pure through each).  This way I do NOT affect my pride and joy, my 2 channel listening.  The piece that is paramount, as has been said already, is a good stereo preamp that has HT Bypass inputs. 

What are they?: 
If you think about it, your stereo preamp is connected to your front main amps (powers your left and right channel main speakers).  You listen to vinyl, 2 channel digital, whatever and you control it though your stereo preamp and its volume control.  Fine.  However, what happens when you want to use those same front channels and those same amplifiers for the front part of your movie/surround setup??  Well....no problem...you set the stereo preamp to the "HT Bypass" input which is a dedicated set of l/r inputs that come from your surround processor/receiver's "front l/r" outputs (this presupposes that your home theater processor or receiver has what's called pre-outs....a set of six or eight rca outputs that would go to external amps if needed).  So....the front l/r from your receiver go to the stereo preamp's HT Bypass inputs...and you set the preamp for that input.  Now, the stereo preamp is completely out of the loop...it's passing the front l/r signals through unharmed to the front amps....being controlled by the volume on your receiver/processor (not controlled by your stereo preamp volume control).   This way you don't have to have separate amps or cables or speakers for the front part of your surround system. 

Now...if you somehow can't find a stereo preamp with HT bypass you could "fake" it by sending the front l/r's to a regular input (say "aux" or something) and make sure that the stereo preamp is set to the same volume control every time (say straight up noon).  Then you would calibrate your HT channels with your stereo preamp set to aux and its own volume set to high noon.  It's a bit more kludgy, and it is not as pure cuz now you are coloring the signal a bit since it's going though the active portion of the preamp...no big deal really, except to make sure the volume on the stereo pre is always set to same level when watching movies, then left alone......remember, volume control for movies is using the processor/receiver, not the stereo preamp.

[low.pfile]

Howdy!

I'm not sure I understand what you guys are saying.  Get a 2-channel preamp instead of an HT Processor?

Can you please give me a couple examples?  Manufacturers and model numbers please.

Dave

Yes, a 2 channel preamp + amp is a very common way to integrate a music system with an HT system. you could also use an integrated amp instead of the pream/amp combo. in either case an HT Bypass is needed (otherwise you are adding the preamp's gain to the amp). The preamp would be in addition to the multi-channel HT Processor (aka pre/pro, or part of an AV Receiver).

Here is how that would look graphically (my simplified diagram):



With the above configuration:
When listening to music you only use the preamp+ amp.
When viewing HT you use your AVReceiver (or HT processor +multichannel amp) to power the center and other surround channels. The front left and right are amplified by the the preamp+amp (though because the preamp has HT bypass it is just a pass through connection).

Depending on your priority of music to Home Theater, you can bias your new set up expense/complexity. I have a combo system and bias it toward 2 channel music. So I use an external DAC fed by a digital server along with a tube preamp and separate amp (details listed under my profile-5.1 Living Room HT) If I had to do it over I would reduce the amount paid for my AVR, since now I only use a fraction of it. But when I started my system I utilized all of its functionality (DAC, preamp, amp).

There are other options which include a very high quality multi channel amp with separate pre/pro. For example: a multichannel tube amps (eg. Butler) which may elevate your music as well as audio from HT- just add a Pre/Pro. I have yet to hear or read about a HT processor + amp combo that surpasses a dedicated 2 channel for music.  Again without knowing your budget and desired level of system complexity it's hard to for anyone to say "go with X and Y."

Hope that helps a bit.

[Phil A]

Here's a Rotel unit too -  http://www.rotel.com/NA/products/ProductDetails.htm?Id=486

You can also look for used equipment on this site or places like Audiogon

[ted_b]

A wonderful inexpensive (and sometimes seen used) preamp with HT bypass is the Adcom GFP-750. 

[Phil A]

A wonderful inexpensive (and sometimes seen used) preamp with HT bypass is the Adcom GFP-750.

I agree.  Here's one with a sale already pending -  http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatran&1278722879&/Adcom-GFP-750-Excellent-Nelson

I've thought about that unit for my basement system but since I rarely use it (it gets used most of the time for daytime sporting events during football season) I always talk myself out of it.

[John Casler]

Hi all!

I'm considering replacing two separate systems (HT and Audio) with one decent HT system.  I have been reading comments that music through an HT system will not sound as good as 2-channel audio.  I'm sure there is some truth to that but I'm not sure it is really that big of a deal if decent equipment is used.  I'm not an audiophile and can't afford high-dollar gear such as McIntosh.  What brand(s) would you recommend?  Receivers or separate processor and amp?

Dave

The only way to effectively address your question is if you have a budget posted.

I set up many systems like this and it is obviously going to be a slightly higher cost to run a separate preamp (which I would suggest if your are more 2 channel oriented)

But if you are 50/50 HT/Music, then you might be satisfied with one of the better pre/pros.

I can suggest that many of my clients find the OPPO products offer a significant value (bang for the buck) as a universal disc "source" for both HT and Audio (especially with the new 83SE version), but without a budget price point it is difficult to give you suggestions.

It is also valuable to provide what parts of your present system you may be retaining (such as speakers) to know what  brand name components might be relevant since you want more specific guidance.

[diofan56]

Hey there everybody!

Wow!  Lots of replies!  Cool!

I currently have 2 totally separate systems.  A 2-channel audio and a Home Theater.

The 2-channel audio consists of:
Adcom GTP-400 preamp/tuner
Adcom GFA-545 II amp
Carver TL-3100 CD player (not used at this time)
Denon DVD-1930CI DVD/CD player (used at this time)
Thorens TD-280 Mk II turntable
RBH SA 400 amps (2)
RBH T2/P-R speakers

The HT system consists of:
Marantz SR4003 receiver
Panasonic DMP-BD60 Blu-Ray player
Paradigm mini-monitors (2 pair)
Paradigm center channel
Velodyne 10-inch subwoofer
Custom-designed and built line array speakers.  They are currently being used for the front left and right in the HT system.  They sound quite good with the Adcom stuff.

I use the HT system more because I watch TV occasionally.  I don't use too much volume.

When I use the 2-channel audio system I like to crank it up a bit because I like to be able to feel the music.

A budget?  I haven't really thought about that very much at this point.  I was thinking more along the lines of Adcom or Cambridge Audio or other brands at that level.  Are those brands considered entry-level audiophile?

Is there anything else I can tell you?  Please ask.

Here is a picture of both systems.

Dave

[Phil A]

My bedroom system is a Marantz 6003 receiver and I have 3 Thiel SCS2s up front which are 4 ohms so I use an old Adcom 555 to drive the left and right.  Sounds pretty good on music.  The bedroom system backs to the main system and they will be more interconnected when I upgrade the pre/pro in the main system (HDMI and digital audio outs going back and forth and I'll eventually have the RCA outs of my Bryston DAC connected to the bedroom system so I'll have a good source as well).  If I had to do it all over again, I'd likely just go 2-channel in the main system and I would have finished the basement differently (not that it is bad now - the basement has an 88 inch screen and the main system 100) and done more of a strict home theater down there with a bigger screen.

[low.pfile]

Diofan,

Is this system setup only for the family photo or for actual listening?

the line arrays seem to be in the corner of the room?

[TRADERXFAN]

Knowing what I know now, I would go for a full front end of high sensitivity, and controlled directivity, speakers for your left, center, and right. That could mean different things depending on your budget, but would likely involve pro drivers with a horn (gedlee, audiokinesis, gr research v series).  Dipoles in the rear, if possible.

I am still looking for the right processor, but prefer separate amplifier (5 channels of simple, but quality gear should be good enough, like multichanels from ati, Jaton,  etc)

Then use multiple subs to even out bass response.

Tony

[diofan56]

Hey there low.pfile!

When I took that picture that was actually how I had everything set up.  For a time the line arrays were not hooked up; the Paradigms were used for 5.1.  Then I hooked the line arrays up and disconnected one pair of Paradigms.

I have been 'remodeling' the first floor of the house (aka removing wallpaper and painting) so I took the 2-channel system into the basement.  I was hoping to have a room all to myself for my music but the system sounds absolutely horrible down there.  The basement is even finished.  When I get the remodeling done the stereo is coming back upstairs because it sounds so much better in the front/living room.  The front room is 14 x 17 with the dining room off to the right.  At that point I can actually get the Paradigms placed around the room so that the HT would actually be somewhat realistic.  I will most likely be using the RBHs as the front left and right.  I would not even have to use the Velodyne at that point because those 2 RBH sub cabinets kick pretty good.

I'm glad I started this thread.  I learned some stuff from you guys.  I didn't know that some 2-channel preamps had HT bypasses.

[diofan56]

Well, it appears that I need to upgrade my 2-channel preamp.  Thanks again for all of the great information!