80hz filter for main speakers - WOW

Sherlock · « **on:** 23 May 2010, 09:26 pm »

I'm running a desktop setup with a pair of Energy RC-Mini's (very nice little speaker) and a Martin Logan sub. I just moved the jumpers in my Sensation to the '80hz filter for main speakers' setting.

WOW! What a difference! Much more volume, detail, less 'strain'. I thought this might be a nice improvement but I'm surprised at how well this works.

If you're running a 3-piece setup and your amp has this feature, by all means try it!

roscoeiii · « **Reply #1 on:** 23 May 2010, 10:23 pm »

Takes some load off your main speakers, huh? My experience too.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #2 on:** 24 May 2010, 02:28 am »

Quote from: Sherlock on 23 May 2010, 09:26 pm

I'm running a desktop setup with a pair of Energy RC-Mini's (very nice little speaker) and a Martin Logan sub. I just moved the jumpers in my Sensation to the '80hz filter for main speakers' setting.

WOW! What a difference! Much more volume, detail, less 'strain'. I thought this might be a nice improvement but I'm surprised at how well this works.

If you're running a 3-piece setup and your amp has this feature, by all means try it!

I tried mine that way tonight, and I still cannot believe it. I had to turn my volume down four notches because of the increase of volume. I also had to decrease the sub output, too much bass.

The soundstage increased another 15-20%, inner detail about 20%, and the slight grainy problems I was having in the midrange with the 451, all disappeared. I was blaming the caps. No wonder Seth asked me at LSAF if I had moved the jumpers. I wish I had, dummy me. Like you said....Wow!

virtue · « **Reply #3 on:** 24 May 2010, 03:03 am »

It's taken two years for anyone to comment on how good 2+1 sounds with these amps. THANK YOU! That sub-out nearly killed us (+/- 15v, pop, etc) and it took 2 gens to get it right!

Back when we were building speakers (insert belly laugh here), we were trading everything in the world to get decent SPL below 80 hz. If you give up on those frequencies and do smaller point-source speakers, filling in the low-bass with a powered sub, you get massive output for no money and no space.

Those frequencies are omni-directional anyway. Bose figured it out sort of... (they just hope you won't try to make noise between 100hz - 300hz.. rant over)... but seriously, it's a killer configuration. 2+1 works.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #4 on:** 5 Jun 2010, 03:35 am »

Thinking back on the sound improvement that this mod made, it actually was much larger difference that when I switched the Sensation to batteries. I wonder if all amps would improve this much if ran this way.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #5 on:** 20 Jun 2010, 05:41 pm »

I hooked up my Infinity Cascade 12 300 watt subwoofer last nught and it turned out fantastic. There are so many adjustmants on the sub, you can match it to your sysem easily. These are refurbs, but I have bought many refurbs through the years and have had zero problems. Here are some of the features stated from Ebay:

"The compact Infinity Cascade™ Model CASCADE12CH-Z powered subwoofer features a 300-watt amplifier to deliver deep, powerful bass with dramatically reduced distortion for an incredibly lifelike sound. The Cascade Model Twelve also includes Infinity's proprietary Room Adaptive Bass Optimization System (R.A.B.O.S.) and test measurement kit, which allows you to optimize low-frequency performance to match your unique living environment."

The sub weighs 42 pounds, so it is not a lightweight. The lower bass now has more detail, weight, and authority than the MS sub I was using, which I actually expected. The going rate has been aboit $150-175. Highly recommended if you decide the 2+1 route is the way tou want to go. Set the 80hz filter on your Virtue amp, and the sound is definitely a giant killer.

You boys at the LSAF had better take note, the pressure is on.

eclein · « **Reply #6 on:** 20 Jun 2010, 05:51 pm »

+1 on setting the filter to 80hz...I'm just amazed that my TWO.2 could sound any better then it already did...but it does!!! The filter runs the signal through a different set of caps correct? So a bit more break-in time for these unused caps-right?

I listened to Jeff Beck "Hammerhead" earlier-what a treat..just like the commercial where the guy in the chair gets blown backward
from the music, big smile time!!!

justplainmike · « **Reply #7 on:** 5 Jul 2010, 03:42 am »

Hi All,

Can anyone tell me how the 80hz cutoff works? Is it an absolute cutoff at 80hz or a roll-off at that point. The reason I ask is that I was planning to use my One.2 (when I get it...stupid holiday delay!!) in a 2.1 set up. I have a pair of Axiom M3 v2's that are pretty spectacular down to 60hz and my subwoofer has a low pass filter that I can dial up to 120 hz. But if I don't use the 80hz jumper on the amp then I'm getting a full signal to the speakers. From what I've been reading, people on the forum seem pretty satisfied with the sound they're getting but I feel like my Axioms still have some breathing room in the 60-80hz range. Thoughts??

eclein · « **Reply #8 on:** 5 Jul 2010, 04:06 am »

Mike...its an easy tweak...you take the cover off (4 allen screws), pull it back part way and unplug the little LED light-easy-then pull cover off a bit more and take little jumpers(2) and move them...takes less then 5 minutes total and just as easy to change back. I don't know technically how the 80hz rolls off or cuts off-someone will know. I use my Polk PSW-10 sub with adjustable crossover and set the cross to 80hz and the transition is very smooth.
Its easy to do, and easy to change back....enjoy!!!!

JohnR · « **Reply #9 on:** 5 Jul 2010, 04:15 am »

Hi - it would be a gradual rolloff of 6dB/octave.

CSI · « **Reply #10 on:** 5 Jul 2010, 04:23 am »

Quote from: justplainmike on 5 Jul 2010, 03:42 am

Hi All,

Can anyone tell me how the 80hz cutoff works? Is it an absolute cutoff at 80hz or a roll-off at that point. The reason I ask is that I was planning to use my One.2 (when I get it...stupid holiday delay!!) in a 2.1 set up. I have a pair of Axiom M3 v2's that are pretty spectacular down to 60hz and my subwoofer has a low pass filter that I can dial up to 120 hz. But if I don't use the 80hz jumper on the amp then I'm getting a full signal to the speakers. From what I've been reading, people on the forum seem pretty satisfied with the sound they're getting but I feel like my Axioms still have some breathing room in the 60-80hz range. Thoughts??

I think I read somewhere that the high pass filter is first order (someone please correct me if wrong). This means a gentle slope of 6 dB/octave so that at whatever level your speakers were normally operating at 40 Hz (an octave below 80) they will now be 6 dB lower. This should make for a very smooth transition. I just got my Two.2 and have already tried it in my two systems. First impression is that I like it better with the filter in one system and without it in the other. This is very much subject to change as I get more time to listen. I do know that you will need to experiment a bit to be sure which one works best for you.

justplainmike · « **Reply #11 on:** 5 Jul 2010, 04:52 am »

Thanks!! I'll be experimenting both ways but you answered the question way better than I phrased it to you!

Mike

dvenardos · « **Reply #12 on:** 5 Jul 2010, 05:13 am »

If you can solder you can also substitute a different value cap to get a lower crossover point.

justplainmike · « **Reply #13 on:** 5 Jul 2010, 04:05 pm »

I'm afraid I can't solder. But I'd be curious to read about anyone who has done that type of Mod. I think with the roll-off, 80hz will work just right w/my speakers anyway. I'll post when I find out!! I'm counting the days now...looks like Wednesday for delivery...

eclein · « **Reply #14 on:** 5 Jul 2010, 04:45 pm »

Mike...I don't solder either...you don't really need to worry about it as they sound good as shipped. I just got back home after being away for 3 days and got to hear my system again, I was missin it bigtime...it sounds sweet. You'll be happy with them.....Have a great Day!!

brother love · « **Reply #15 on:** 5 Jul 2010, 07:48 pm »

Quote from: justplainmike on 5 Jul 2010, 03:42 am

Hi All,

Can anyone tell me how the 80hz cutoff works? Is it an absolute cutoff at 80hz or a roll-off at that point. The reason I ask is that I was planning to use my One.2 (when I get it...stupid holiday delay!!) in a 2.1 set up. I have a pair of Axiom M3 v2's that are pretty spectacular down to 60hz and my subwoofer has a low pass filter that I can dial up to 120 hz. But if I don't use the 80hz jumper on the amp then I'm getting a full signal to the speakers. From what I've been reading, people on the forum seem pretty satisfied with the sound they're getting but I feel like my Axioms still have some breathing room in the 60-80hz range. Thoughts??

Confirming JohnR response re: 6dB rolloff /octave ...

I measured frequencies from Real Traps test tone CD for my pr. GR Research N2x's (sealed 2 way, 6.5" woofers) w/ no sub & Virtue Audio One.2 w/ 80 HZ jumper enacted using Rat Shack digital SPL meter, mounted on tripod at listening area & for "C" weighting fast response, & added correction factors. One.2 volume set per 70 dB tone ( 10 o'clock).

Room gain & nodes notwithstanding, One.2 w/ 80 Hz jumper results: 82 dB @ 80 Hz, 76 dB @ 40 Hz, 69 dB @ 30 Hz, & 63 dB 20 Hz

I have acoustical sound panels & corner absorber that helps my problematic room, but I am still feathering-in 12" servo sub crossover setting & volume level trying to reduce a pesky 92 dB peak in 50- 70 Hz range.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 Jul 2010, 09:22 pm »

Quote

but I am still feathering-in 12" servo sub crossover setting & volume level trying to reduce a pesky 92 dB peak in 50- 70 Hz range.

Our servo amps will make that real easy. Which one are you using? A300 or A370PEQ?

Sam-fi · « **Reply #17 on:** 5 Jul 2010, 09:26 pm »

I have always worried that a first order is not steep enough? 63dB at 20Hz seems pretty high! I feel like my speakers will be blending alot down to 40Hz and won't take enough load off the monitors.

brother love · « **Reply #18 on:** 5 Jul 2010, 09:47 pm »

Quote from: Danny on 5 Jul 2010, 09:22 pm

Our servo amps will make that real easy. Which one are you using? A300 or A370PEQ?

Hi Danny,

I have the Rythmik Audio A300SE w/ your F12G driver. It's very limited bells & whistles- wise, but hey you offered such a sweet package deal to AC members at the time, I couldn't refuse.

It's currently set @ 20 Hz frequency, high damping, 0 ms phase/ delay.

vvv Thanks Danny. I was heading down that road, but I was going to start @ 70 Hz & slowly, but surely work my way down. You just gave me a shortcut! vvv

Danny Richie · « **Reply #19 on:** 5 Jul 2010, 10:43 pm »

My woofer that was sent out in that killer package deal was the SW-12-04.

My advice is to set the crossover setting on the A300 amp to 40Hz or below to avoid your in room peaked range.

You may also need to adjust your phase settings to make sure that they are in phase with your speakers.

Quote

I have always worried that a first order is not steep enough? 63dB at 20Hz seems pretty high! I feel like my speakers will be blending alot down to 40Hz and won't take enough load off the monitors.

Your N2X speakers will also give you a natural off below 60Hz. So the two combined will be much more than a first order roll off.