[Mag]

Had visit to Werd's yesterday to pick up a Monster power conditioner that I'm going to purchase after giving it a test run of a 100 db on Made in Japan-DP, last night. Let me tell you it was more 'live' like than I heard it before!

Werd has only two speakers that disappear but throw a beautiful phantom image in the center of the room. He was polite with the throttle but demonstrated the system was capable of high spl. Also the soundstage was wide not narrow as I was anticapating. With the song 'All along the Watch tower by David Matthews the system powered by a 14B SST/2 had better instrument seperation than what I recalled hearing on my system at home. The presentation was laid back, but when cranked would be more forward to the in your face sound that I'm used to hearing at home.

I left convincd that 2 channel stereo can accomplish what takes 10 speakers in my MC stereo configuration. The room being a factor on which approach works best. Neither is wrong, both produce a center image along with a halographic image. The difference being a matter of learned or conditioned preference.

[Napalm]

"Told you so" about the soundstage.....

The good news: your Paradigms are perfectly capable of exactly the same trick
The bad news: you probably need a larger room

Now getting to Werd's setup - since the soundstage comes forward when increasing the volume, I guess he has an issue with either the preamp or some thermal whatever with the speaker's voice coils.

And the questions:

1) How many librarians there
2) Is it true that he has a furry 14B

Nap. 

[James Tanner]

Sounds like a great setup werd

james

[jaxwired]

What speakers?

[werd]

Hi

Glad you are enjoying the MC AVS2000, i knew you would like it. 

The Acoustic Zens can throw a pretty wide soundstage if you let them. Tall floorstander that can get the music
out with not much positioning or toeing. They are excellent for the volumes i listen to. I have considered the studio 100's just to get to the concert spls.

The Max Bella pre i am using comes equiped with a 16/23 toggle gain. The lower setting lets it sits back and when if i want it loud i use the 23gain.  So its not a thermal issue with my voice coils but a gain setting that changes the forwardness. This pre in the 23gain is remarkably similar to the bp26. Which says lots about the bp26. As one is a tube pre with only volume and no balance, very purist and the bp 26 is more traditional with remote control, balance, more inputs and switches.  A whole mess of stuff that can screw things up but doesnt.

[Mag]

>>How many librarians there<<

There were two ladies there with contoured figures, glossy smooth finish, front ported.

Werd I believe changes the gain on the amp for either a forward or laid back presentation. I think he upped the gain on the Krout rock,which was really good. Keep in mind also that I was sitting about 20' back from the 4' in my room.

[Napalm]

Hi

Glad you are enjoying the MC AVS2000, i knew you would like it. 

The Acoustic Zens can throw a pretty wide soundstage if you let them. Tall floorstander that can get the music
out with not much positioning or toeing. They are excellent for the volumes i listen to. I have considered the studio 100's just to get to the concert spls.

The Max Bella pre i am using comes equiped with a 16/23 toggle gain. The lower setting lets it sits back and when if i want it loud i use the 23gain.  So its not a thermal issue with my voice coils but a gain setting that changes the forwardness. This pre in the 23gain is remarkably similar to the bp26. Which says lots about the bp26. As one is a tube pre with only volume and no balance, very purist and the bp 26 is more traditional with remote control, balance, more inputs and switches.  A whole mess of stuff that can screw things up but doesnt.

Consider you lucky, the Studio's are a bear to position. You would had spent months moving them 1 cm at a time, then realizing it's all wrong and starting again from scratch.

BTW you could try playing with the 14B gain too.

Now, 'fess it up, it's furry, isn't it? We want pics! 

Happy listening to you and Mag!

Nap.

P.S. About Studio positioning - to add insult to injury, due to the tweeter design the toe-in is also a critical affair:



imagine the endless possibilities in positioning them (wrong). 

[Mag]

>>Glad you are enjoying the MC AVS2000, i knew you would like it.<<

Yeah it adds weight to the bass. I'll have to be careful with the volume as I can feel the bass pressure on my ears now.

It changes the highs too, but less noticable. On Made in Japan, Jon Lord's organ had a real nice edge to it. And I could actually discern the shimmering of cymbals like water droplets falling on them.

[werd]

>>Glad you are enjoying the MC AVS2000, i knew you would like it.<<

Yeah it adds weight to the bass. I'll have to be careful with the volume as I can feel the bass pressure on my ears now.

It changes the highs too, but less noticable. On Made in Japan, Jon Lord's organ had a real nice edge to it. And I could actually discern the shimmering of cymbals like water droplets falling on them.

Get your brother the electrician to hook up a 240v into that room and i will bring the rm-20 by. I would have to have a personal written guarantee that you control the volume sensibly so as not to peel  my face off. That rm 20 would lite your room up and bring the fire department breakng your door down.

[Mag]

I was worried the police might show up when I had her up to 100db. The neighbors probably had their windows shut because of the rain. I fell asleep in the middle of Equinox by Jean Michel Jarre.

Several years ago I fell asleep with the windows open when I had the stereo on the main floor. This was like 12 midnight til 4 am.
Some guy in a suit showed up on the doorstep in the morning claiming he was with the police and that I had a noise complaint.

[Levi]

Congrats Werd! 

Now I see a tube preamp in the mix.

Hi

Glad you are enjoying the MC AVS2000, i knew you would like it. 

The Acoustic Zens can throw a pretty wide soundstage if you let them. Tall floorstander that can get the music
out with not much positioning or toeing. They are excellent for the volumes i listen to. I have considered the studio 100's just to get to the concert spls.

The Max Bella pre i am using comes equiped with a 16/23 toggle gain. The lower setting lets it sits back and when if i want it loud i use the 23gain.  So its not a thermal issue with my voice coils but a gain setting that changes the forwardness. This pre in the 23gain is remarkably similar to the bp26. Which says lots about the bp26. As one is a tube pre with only volume and no balance, very purist and the bp 26 is more traditional with remote control, balance, more inputs and switches.  A whole mess of stuff that can screw things up but doesnt.

[werd]

Consider you lucky, the Studio's are a bear to position. You would had spent months moving them 1 cm at a time, then realizing it's all wrong and starting again from scratch.

BTW you could try playing with the 14B gain too.

Now, 'fess it up, it's furry, isn't it? We want pics!  :lol:

Happy listening to you and Mag!

Nap.

P.S. About Studio positioning - to add insult to injury, due to the tweeter design the toe-in is also a critical affair:



imagine the endless possibilities in positioning them (wrong). 

Use the low gain setting on the amp and pre all the time. Excellent for late nite listening.
The amp is only furry on the back, hard to see but excellent to feel

[Napalm]

Werd, if I understand correctly, your speakers are a little bit forward for your taste with either the BP25 or your tube pre with default gain settings.

May I ask you what special quality do these speakers have that you accepted the burden to tweak them with tubes, gain settings and cables instead of going a tried and true route like Dynaudio or PMC?

Nap.

[werd]

Werd, if I understand correctly, your speakers are a little bit forward for your taste with either the BP25 or your tube pre with default gain settings.

May I ask you what special quality do these speakers have that you accepted the burden to tweak them with tubes, gain settings and cables instead of going a tried and true route like Dynaudio or PMC?

Nap.

It wouldnt matter what speaker, plopping a speaker down and expecting it to sound the way you want out of the box is unrealistic. All the tweaks you mentioned helps  getting the sound you want from it.

[Moon Doggy]

"Told you so" about the soundstage.....

The good news: your Paradigms are perfectly capable of exactly the same trick
The bad news: you probably need a larger room

 The Paradigms strengths lie elsewhere, detail, slam.... The Acoustic Zen like the Audio Physic speakers are known for their jawdropping soundstage. You won't believe it till you hear it!

 The AZ Adagios use a combination of D'Appolito speaker config, ribbon tweeters, and transmission line to do the trick.
Whereas the Audio Physic use side firing woofers, ultra slim cabinets, and proprietary hyper-holographic speaker design to get their soundstage.

 Sallie Reynold's review on the features the Acoustic Zen speakers:

"these may well contribute not only to the overall clarity, but to seamless crossovers points; tonal and timbral accuracy; sparkle and sweet detail in the highs; depth and detail in lows; richness and nuance in midrange; and a soundstage that is satisfyingly wide, deep, and high, and does not collapse when you move out of the sweet spot."




     AZ Adagio               Audio Physic Virgo

[werd]

^^^^^

good post Moon Doggy 

[Moon Doggy]

Well, I've heard B&W's, Paradigms, Acoustic Zen, and Audio Physic speakers all at the same store (you know where). My B&Ws don't have near the soundstage of the AZs.

Ha, I just noticed that you've been really busy with over 500 "visits" to your place

[werd]

The difference in soundstage between the 4B and 14B is immense using the AZs.  The 4B had more of wall of sound . Where the 14B sounded as if there librarians picking apart the instruments and properly reassembling them in the soundstage (read that somewhere )   .  The sweet spot comes alive using the 14B where its less significant with the 4B. 

[Napalm]

Aha. So what would be the very strong point of the AZ soundstage? Width or depth? In my experience width is not that difficult to get, height is quite room dependent, and depth is the most problematic. I have yet to see some speakers that are at same time detailed and with very deep soundstage. AFAIK it's a compromise. I can vary depth with speaker positioning. What I found is that close to front wall gives less depth but more slam and detail. Since we were talking pianos in another thread, it's exactly these that will make them sound like percussion instruments (which they actually are). Bigger distance gives more depth at detail expense and after a certain point the whole thing becomes mushy and muffled.

So what do you guys get there? Depth + detail or just depth?

Nap. 

[Don_S]

the song 'All along the Watch tower by David Matthews the system powered by a 14B SST/2 had better instrument seperation than what I recalled hearing on my system at home. The presentation was laid back, but when cranked would be more forward to the in your face sound that I'm used to hearing at home.

Which CD is that on?  I cannot find it.