Threshold Audio Dragon V Integrated Multi-Amplifier

earlmarc · « **on:** 10 Feb 2004, 12:19 am »

Threshold Audio will be releasing an integrated multi-amplifier with pre/pro functions for $1800! The amp section is 100watt x 5 or 120watt x2. Considering the reputation of this companies amplifiers, $1800 is a steal. In fact, Soundstage commented that during the CES show, that Threshold had one of the best sounding rooms. Even if you purchased 5 MB-100 and the Outlaw 950 Pre/Pro for $2150, its not likely it would compete with the Dragon V Integrated Multi-Amplifier. Folks it doesn't get any better than this for the money. Just think about it,. One unit connected to a universal player like a modded Denon DVD-2900 or 5900.
The thought of it tickles me wildly!

OBF · « **Reply #1 on:** 29 Mar 2004, 08:38 pm »

earlmarc,

Have you (or anybody) heard any more info on this product? I did a search back when you originally posted this and didn't find much, and I still don't. Depending on how it's built and implemented, it seems like an amazing deal. Do you know if it has any processing for 2 channel like the McCormack or Margules preamps? Based purely on Threshold's reputation, this product seems like a much better deal. A McCormack MAP-1 and 5 channels of amplification would probably cost double the Dragon V.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #2 on:** 29 Mar 2004, 09:04 pm »

I'm glad that the High End is starting to take MC seriously. Everyone who dislikes MC music simply because they never heard it sound good on an HT system might be in for a surprise.

earlmarc · « **Reply #3 on:** 29 Mar 2004, 09:50 pm »

I spoke with Threshold about the Dragon V and it should be released in about a month. It will come with a 5 sets 2ch as well as a 5.1 input. There will be no bass management features. I agree that this is a better deal if you don't already have amplifiers. I don't think it will perform better than the Margules Daleth with good amplifiers like the Odyssey Khartago. The Daleth will be analog in and analog out with bass management. The preamp section of the Daleth should be superior. And the Daleth will offer 5 sets of 2ch and 2 sets of 5.1. With the Dragon, you will have to rely totally on the ability of the DVD player for bass management. Thus, you will have to purchase a superior DVD player like the Denon DVD-5900 for its excellent bass management features. I've done the math. Dragon V at $1850 introductory + $2000 for DVD-5900=$2850. Daleth at $900 introductory + $695 for APL DV-563A + $1200 Khartago x 3 amps + $538 for MB100 x 2=$2795. You decide which is the better value. I've made my choice.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #4 on:** 29 Mar 2004, 09:54 pm »

The lack of bass management on the Dragon V is disturbing- many of us that like MC also use subs. Hell, lots of 2 ch guys use subs. Not only does the lack of bass management make MC more inconvenient, it's almost a deal breaker for plain stereo. there are a lot of DVD & universal players that do bass management, but few CD players, etc. And presumably only the MC input would have a sub input...

Looks like the Daleth will be the way to go.

JoshK · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 Mar 2004, 10:22 pm »

Looks like you guys need bigger speakers!

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #6 on:** 29 Mar 2004, 10:38 pm »

They don't make speakers big enough for me to ditch my pair of subs!

Besides, and speaker that can do 115 dB @ 20 hz is a bit out of my price range.

OBF · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 Mar 2004, 12:27 am »

Do you think the Threshold made amps (and considering synergy, lack of ICs) would be of a similar quality to the Odyssey or IRDs? I have no idea how much they are stepping down to hit this price point, but I thought Threshold amps were some of the best SS on the market and certainly a level above what I could get 5 channels of for $1,000-$1,500.

The Margules sounds like an awesome product, but then you need 5 more ICs and I don't like the idea of going from a high end digital amp (can't afford to buy more of them) to something like the IRD, but I guess that's just one of the many factors to consider along with bass mgmt.

Another idea for bass mgmt might be to route bass to the mains and then use an active crossover so that it would work for both 5 and 2 ch. This would allow you to use a cheaper player like the APL 563, but you'd have to add the cost of a Marchand or something good.

earlmarc · « **Reply #8 on:** 30 Mar 2004, 02:13 am »

There is no question that the Treshold Dragon V amplifier section would be special. I'm certain it would be better than the IRD but I'm not sure if it would better than the Khartagos. There is essentially no difference in the character of the sound of the Dragon V and S5000e other than power. I was told by Threshold that the same topology is shared by all of their amps. Soundstage awarded the S5000e the Reviewers Choice Award and stated that it was one of the best amplifiers under $10,000. Soundstage also awarded the Khartago the Reviewers Choice Award and said it was the amp to get up to $2000. My gut says that 5ch of Khartagos would be better than the Dragon V. It would be close. What I have decided to do is use the Khartagos for the front three channels and the MB100 for the rears.

OBF · « **Reply #9 on:** 31 Mar 2004, 08:19 pm »

I just noticed this quote from the Soundstage CES2004 writeup:

****Here’s what you get according to Threshold: five 100W channels of genuine Threshold power, a multichannel preamp section complete with several bass-management options enabling it to meld with a variety of systems, and a gorgeous chassis of steel, aluminum, and Corian (available in multiple colors, no less).*****

Specifically the part about bass-management.......?

JoshK · « **Reply #10 on:** 31 Mar 2004, 08:24 pm »

You don't need bass management to use subs do you? Why not run your MC speakers full range and add subs to the mix? For music it might be overkill (maybe) but for movies it would be fine. Unless you are using tiny monitors I don't know why you need bass management.

OBF · « **Reply #11 on:** 31 Mar 2004, 09:03 pm »

I think the concern is for people who want to use a MC system for 2ch music. So, like you said, for MC you could just use the LFE channel for a sub, but if you want to also use it for 2ch then you'd need some sort of crossover, either in the player, the pre/pro, or an active on the mains (set mains to large, surrounds to small, sub off).

I'm not sure how I'd want to set mine up yet, so the versatility is nice. It seems like the Dragon has some bass mgmt provisions but earlmarc must have found it lacking when he investigated?????

earlmarc · « **Reply #12 on:** 31 Mar 2004, 09:56 pm »

The Dragon V wil not offer any bass-management features according to Threshold. You will have to rely on the bass-management features of your DVD player. If you go this route, its important to consider players like the Denon DVD-5900 that offer superior bass-mangement features.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #13 on:** 31 Mar 2004, 10:33 pm »

Not having proper bass management just kills the sound, IMO. You always get holes or overlaps in coverage, never a good seamless blend. Plus you lose one of the biggest advantages of subs- relieving the mains of having to produce the bass. IM distortion increases and the "ease" of the presentation just evaporates.

OBF · « **Reply #14 on:** 31 Mar 2004, 11:05 pm »

Quote from: Rob Babcock

Not having proper bass management just kills the sound, IMO.

Do you mean setting all the speakers to large and just routing the LFE to a sub yields inferior sound, or not having a sub at all? Or both?

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #15 on:** 1 Apr 2004, 12:14 am »

That approach works fine- with stuff that has an LFE encoded. But most 2 ch sources do not. No CD or LP has 2.1 sound (that I know of).

Of course, not all SACD/DVD-A use the same channels, either. For instance, you find some 4.1 discs, some 5.0 discs, etc. David Chesky, if I recall, is a fan of 6.0. There really isn't any set-in-stone way the 6 channels must be allocated.

JoshK · « **Reply #16 on:** 1 Apr 2004, 12:25 am »

that makes sense, but I would just use 5 RM40's if I wanted to do MC.

(which I don't for the record) Then I wouldn't need no stinking bass mgmt!

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #17 on:** 1 Apr 2004, 02:06 am »

If I bought 5 X rm40's I'd have to throw a tarp over 'em and live under them!

Cause I couldn't afford anything else.