Klipsch Heresey vs. 1801's

Phast Lap · « **on:** 8 Feb 2004, 09:16 pm »

Can someone give me some perspective on these two speakers. I am debating an additional investment into my vintage system (Marantz 2245).

I am afraid the 1801's will lead me to higher end hardware (Jolida 302b) much lighter wallet.

Anybody got an opinion? Kevin Becker? Dave Ellis mention you have both of these speakers.

Steve

Figo · « **Reply #1 on:** 8 Feb 2004, 09:27 pm »

I haven't heard either speaker, but can't imagine that they would have many if any at all similarities.

stereotypically analyzing(like I said, have not heard either):

1801s would have super detail, tone, smoothness, etc. limited bass(7" woofer), limited(conpared to klipsch) volume, dynanics, efficiency.

klipsch have 100 db(or so I hear) efficiency, huge woofer, HF horn, etc. So, given stereotypes, ultra-dynamics, effortless, fast, etc etc. Also I imagine they need a much larger room to come alive than the 1801s and can probably benefit from some SET amps. possible bright treble, lack of detail, horn glare, etc.

apples to oranges id say.

Also, the 1801s probably would lead to higher end system(and costs!) due to the fact that it can probably show any subtle changes(good or bad) in gear. I read somewhere that the 1801s need a good frontend to really shine, something about spitting back cheap gristle.

jackman · « **Reply #2 on:** 8 Feb 2004, 09:50 pm »

Hi,
I can't comment on the Heresy's, although I have heard them in some decent systems (years ago). I owned the Forte II's for years and loved the dynamics, however I was always left with the impressions that I was listening to speakers versus music. I admit that it was fun to play them at parties at ear splitting volume! You can't do that with the Ellis.

I now own the 1801's. They are probably the polar opposites of the Klipsch. The Ellis are not very efficient (about 85dB), however they are completely transparent. As transparent as any speakers that I have heard. The OW1 tweeters are sweet yet very detailed and have amazing dispersion. The Ellis have better bass than many imagine, however they will not shake your house or play deep bass at high spl's. Don't get me wrong, they are loud enough to make my wife pound on the ceiling with her foot when I play them too loud. The Ellis do the disappearing act very well. Much better than my old Klipsch ever did. The bass on the Ellis, although not as deep as the Klipsch is much more detailed and faster. I found the bass on my Forte II's to be a bit tubby. Also, the Ellis image much better than the Klipsch. I never found imaging to be a strength of any Klipsch speakers. Overall, the Ellis are much more enjoyable too listen to, IMO.

The only areas I would give the Klipsch the edge are in efficiency and dynamics, and oh yea, the ability to play LOUD. The Ellis are more revealing and may require you to upgrade if you are using a receiver, however the cheap Panasonic SR45 can play them as loud as you want to go. Don't even think about driving these things with SET, but you don't need mega watts to make them sing.

Good luck!

Jack

Cut-Throat · « **Reply #3 on:** 9 Feb 2004, 12:59 pm »

Phast,

I do not own the Heresey speakers. I own the Klipsch Belles. Which are huge compared to the 1801s physically. Comparing Horn Speakers to a Speaker like the Ellis 1801 is almost like apples to oranges, but I'll give you some of my impressions.

As far as horn speakers go, the type of amplification is probably more important than others IMHO. I heard a pair of Hereseys once with Solid State Amplification and they were real ear bleeders. Most of all of Klispch Speakers are very efficient (my Belles are 104db) and sound best IMHO with SET tube amp of a few watts. I am currently powering my Belles with a 45 amp with only 1.8 watts per channel. I would guess your Marantz 2245 (I have one of those also) is not very good with your Heresys either.

That being said the Ellis 1801s probably would much better with the 2245 than your current speakers. The 1801s are one of the best if not the best monitor that I have heard to date. I will second Jackmans descriptions in his post and will not try to repeat it.

Personally, I think that the Heresey is not the best Klispch Horn design and think that you have to get into the Klispch Horn, Belle or La Scala design (and now you are talking physically Huge) with proper amplification to appreciate this type of speaker. The Ellis 1801 is a more conventional design and will work great with Solid State or tube amps of at least 20 watts per channel. SET amps need not apply.

jackman · « **Reply #4 on:** 9 Feb 2004, 01:46 pm »

I agree 100% with Cut Throat. The Heresy speakers are probably my least favorite Klipsch. I love the larger ones and have always liked the sound of Klipschorns. A friend of mine has owned them for years and would never give them up, dispite his wife's protests regarding their rather large size. SET amps and Klipsch (larger) speakers have a type of sound that many people (including me) like. Amplifier matching with the Klipsch is critical. Solid state is almost always a bad match for Klipsch.

Jack

Phast Lap · « **Reply #5 on:** 9 Feb 2004, 02:00 pm »

Gentlemen, thank all of you for your responses. I guess I now have some perspective and direction (I knew this was going to hurt my wallet).

I would like some recommendations as to the next step up from my Marantz 2245. I will use it initially to power the 1801's when I finish the speaker construction.

Dave Ellis recommended the Jolida 302b - any opinions on this unit? are there others that would be a good match with the 1801's.

Can someone point me in the direction of a good reputable online retailer for products like the Jolida or others. I noticed Bill Baker from Response Audio in the Market Square appears to have some offerings.

Sorry for all the questions - High end audio is new for me and to complicate things, I am an engineer as well.

Thank you in adavnce for any help!

Steve

rosconey · « **Reply #6 on:** 9 Feb 2004, 02:05 pm »

my step father still has his La Scala 's and his first solid state amp-a 70's sony big ass thing with matching tuner-pre-BIG ASS DIALS-

sounds nice to this day

give bill a call -its only a buck for 20 min

jackman · « **Reply #7 on:** 9 Feb 2004, 02:49 pm »

Hey,
Your timing may be very good. Response Audio is closing their demo room and has some really nice stuff for sale. Bill Baker is a really cool guy and I'm certain he will take good care of you. All of his modded gear looks really cool, you may be able to swing a deal on one of those sweet Jolida modded integrated amps. Also, you may want to look at an unmodded integrated from Response and have it upgraded at a later date. He uses only top quality parts like Audiocaps and Auracaps, Harris FRED's, etc., and offers Bybee options. I love the look of the wood face plates on his amps. Also, Bill is a guy who really stands by his stuff. He has proven that to me in spades.

Best of luck!

Jack

maxwalrath · « **Reply #8 on:** 9 Feb 2004, 03:07 pm »

I've owned 3 different Jolidas and had a few conversations with Bill at Response. Both Bill and Jolida products are top notch. Jolida gear is an incredible value IMO.

Figo · « **Reply #9 on:** 9 Feb 2004, 07:31 pm »

as for amps, if you want to continue along the DIY route, I think the http://www.diyhifisupply.com 's ella amplifier is a perfect candidate. 40watts, around $560 with standard shipping(from China!)

and should be pretty easy to build.

also, make sure you have a decent CD, or at least one with digital output, so you can add a good low cost dac(ala scott nixon tubedac[$400 built] http://www.scott-nixon.com/)

Doug Kim · « **Reply #10 on:** 8 Apr 2004, 03:02 pm »

Hi
I'm new to this circle.
I just wanted to make a short comment on Heresy as I'm using Heresy 2. I ordred my 1801b kit and the cabinet will be finished in 5 weeks by a local shop. So basically I don't know the sound of 1801.

Heresy 2 has little bit different specs than Heresy: 63Hz - 20kHz compared to 55(?)Hz - 17kHz. I think the efficiency is the same for both, 97dB/Wm.
As can be seen here, although Heresy has 12" woofer, but it's sealed in a smaller cabinet. The bass is fast and crisp, but it really doesn't play deep down. Moreover, I heard that Heresy's units are tuned to have different efficeincies, like, 97 dB for tweeter, 96 dB for mid, 95 dB for bass. So, teamed with tube single amps (I tried with 2A3 and EL84 singles), the sound is quite thin and bright.
I recently got Odyssey Stratos, and it makes Heresy 2 sound like full range one unit speaker, my Fostex 168EZ mounted on BK-16 cabinet. This surely is not neutral and flat sound, but it has its own attraction. Killer for female vocals.

I don't have bookshelves of the size of 1801b, but my Harbeth Compact 7-ES2, which has smaller woofer and cabinet than Heresy, goes way deeper. I also remember my previous Revel M20 went deeper too.

Bottom line is, if bass extension is concerned, I would predict 1801 is winner over Heresy 1 or 2.

But, don't get me wrong. Heresy's bass from 12 incher in sealed cabinet is really quick and powerful when teamed with first class solid state amp.

Doug

Phast Lap · « **Reply #11 on:** 9 Apr 2004, 11:40 pm »

Doug, thanks for your comments. I recently aquired a pair of Klipsch Forte's as a short term replacement of a pair of Epicure's in my vintage system (Marantz 2245 receiver).

My extended goal is to build a pair of 1801b's matched with a Jolida Special Edition 302a from Bill Baker @ Repsonse Audio as my main system.