[TJHUB]

Can you tell us what the "something" was?

I can, but I don't like discussing it.  I tell my story when the OP answers my questions so I can decide to try and help or not.

[fredorama]

TJHUB, ok. I am anxious to hear. Maybe you could PM me... or others who have expressed interest...

Kingdeezie, perhaps you missed one of my earlier posts in this thread where I stated that with the EXACT same preamp (well the Decoo, but same as NOVA where preamp DAC section is concerned) the Plinius rocked my system like no other amp I have heard. Bass was incredibly detailed and extended with lifelike impact. Soundstage was huge. There was a bit of glare in the upper frequencies and the mids could have been a touch smoother, but the music was THERE, all around me, and sounded GREAT. It was goosebump city, I was grinning ear to ear. So... unless you have owned this piece (the 9200 @$4800 retail), or any other Plinius amp, or the Peachtree Nova, I will respectfully disregard your comments in these areas.

The monos I have give me a nice detailed bottom end, a bit soft, a bit loose at times, and only sounds good at that "just right" volume. They give me detail but no impact. I don't like that. And some food for thought for the Nova bashers.... much like the Odyssey products, which nobody could believe would sound as good as they (supposedly) do at their price point, why would you think that Klaus Bunge is the only person on the planet that can deliver outstanding sonic performance at prices that fall well below their similar-performing competitors? The Nova has been hailed as just that kind of product. Stereophile's Product of The Year is no easy award to get.

That said, I will plug the amps right inot the wall and see what happens. I also have an electrician coming to rewire all my outlets in that room. Thank you all for your thoughtful comments, even you Kingdeezie. I appreciate the time you took to try to help me out, all of you. Great community! Hope to resolve the issue soon. Klaus has been great to deal with. Hope I can wind up happy with one of his products.

[evan1]

No one is bashing the Nova but just like you do not ike the amps , I or other people were not impressed with what I or we heard from the nova

[drphoto]

I have Stratos Monos and they work for me. But I'd say, like someone else did, if you don't like 'em.....move on. They're not 'gonna change that much. I've had mine for a few years, but I don't recall any dramatic change w/ burn in.

It's a quality product, but it can't be all things to all people.

I have a new tube pre that I just love. There was a guy here who said he couldn't stand to listen to it. So go figure.

If you like the Plinius sound, why not just get one of their power amps? There's a guy w/ a 100w/ch unit on AG w/ one for $2.2K. (don't know 'em, just looked there to see)

[TJHUB]

TJHUB, ok. I am anxious to hear. Maybe you could PM me... or others who have expressed interest...

I said I don't like to discuss it, but I will...

When I first listening to my Stratos Extreme monos, I immediately noticed a fuller sounding bass.  Midbass was better as well.  The sound stage remained as wide as my tube gear ever made it sound, but the Stratos' made the stage sound a bit deeper.  There was a nice detail, but overall the sound was too liquid and came off a little lifeless.  One of the ways I know I like the sound of something is whether or not I get a connection with the music.  I've experienced this with my previous gear and I just know when I achieve it.  This may sound strange, but this is how it works for me. 

I gave the amps a week or so and I just couldn't find any love for them.  They really made my bass and midbass more articulate and punchy and very balanced sounding.  The midrange was nice, but I just seemed to have to strain to hear fine treble detail.  If I focused on it, I could hear it, but I had to focus too hard.  Not good.

Last year I purchased some Belden 10awg speaker wire from BJC and I hated it.  It made my previous Parasound gear sound so bright I occasionally had to squint while listening to music (slight exaggeration here).  I tried listening to them for 4 days before I pulled them out and went back to my previous speaker wire. 

So remembering this scenario, I figured I spend the $30.00 and give what I knew was a bright sound speaker wire another shot.  I terminated the Belden 10awg with locking bananas and connected them.  The change in sound was profound.  The treble detail was MUCH better.  The midrange was nice and clean sounding and the bass was just a bit less, but still sounded very good.  Overall tonality was really good and I again got that connection to the music.  I regularly get that "wow, that sounds fantastic!" thought when listening to music.

My previous Parasound amp, a NewClassic 2250, always had a cheap sort of sound to it.  I purchased my Stratos monos to get away from that sound and that's exactly what happened.  I have amazing detail, more articulate bass with punchy midbass, and a very smooth midrange.  Basically the exact sound I was trying to achieve. 

It is my guess that Odyssey amps are sensitive to the speaker wire used with them.  My previous Calabrines always sounded very much like the 12awg zip cord I ran for years from Home Depot.  However, the Calabrine's took all the life out of the Stratos monos.  The Belden wire restored everything that was missing.  Now I wouldn't consider selling the Stratos amps.  Things have come together nicely for me.  I have a system synergy I'm afraid to mess with as I really think it'll be far easier for me to go backwards than achieve a "better" sound.

The only caveat I'd mention is that my Salk HT2-TL's are a VERY revealing speaker.  I'm not just talking about the ribbon tweeters, I'm talking the midrange/bass drivers.  I don't think I'd think much of my Stratos monos with warmer sounding speaker.  I think they'd come off too dark and lifeless.  I'm only guessing of course because I've only heard my Salk's driven by any Odyssey amp. 

I agree with whomever said that the amps won't change all that much over time.  If you don't like them now, you most likely never will.  You can try what I did and see if that helps or not, but if I were you, I'd probably find an amp that works better with your existing gear.

The ONLY thing I don't like about my Odyssey amps is that they are to be left on all of the time.  I've learned to live with that one...     

[fredorama]

TJHUB, thanks for posting that. Cables and interconnects can make a big difference. I am glad it worked out for you. I may experiemnt with that. Also, I saw that listing on AG but the guy seems to be a flake. Long story - but basically, he refused to call me, emailed me from three different addresses, never checked one of 'em etc... Was not comfortable with him, but loved the unit he was selling. Anyway, they say synergy is everything, and maybe the Plinius sound is just a nice fit with my gear. I do really love certain things about these Monos though. The soundstage is bigger I think. Definitely wider. Excellent placement of instruments within it. Some stuff sounds absolutely fantastic on it. Can't figure this out....

Experimented with different slope settings on Nova - which I agree is the weak link in the equation. This improved the sound somewhat - sounded like it gave it more life. So my happyocity has improved there as a result. Someone suggested experimenting with new speaker placement. Great idea, as much as I hate doing this. I finally got them where I wanted them with my previous gear, after so many adjustments I hate to do that all over again.

I may return these to Klaus and try out the Extremes - not sure.  I think the term "180" may have been a bit harsh. I certainly don't hate them.  I do hear something special in them from time to time. The Dave Matthews LIve in Central Park DVD sounds fantastic in 2 channel . Certainly as good, and maybe even better than it did with the Plinius. That is one sweet recording. Then again, so is Steely Dan's Aja, but that sounded better with the Plinius. Hmmmm....

[AnalogDog]

Pretty demanding and revealing speakers you've got. Maybe just some dysynnergy vis a vis cabling, power conditioner, preamp.
I agree with others in that you need to try:1.)Plug the amps straight into the wall, definitely. 2.)Try another tube preamp. There are lots that have synnergy with the Stratos. 3.)Try Klaus's own cabling. Hard to see how they wouldn't match the amps, since they're wired with it. 4.)Leave 'em on for awhile longer, keep playing 'em. One poster to this forum related a story about how his SE Extremes SUDDENLY sounded drastically better one day, after the dielectric in the caps had finally fully formed. We're talking months later. I didn't experience that with my plain vanilla monos, but I suddenly realized one day they were sounding a lot smoother than the were when I first got them...we're talking a year or so later.
If all this doesn't do it, sell 'em. Not a crime, even in these parts. I'd try a Pass Labs 250.5 or even 350 with those speakers, if Odyssey wasn't doing it for me.

[martinr]

You had asked earlier about power cable upgrades- I had the original Odyssey power cables supplied with my Stratos Monos Extreme Se's for about a year then upgraded to black sand violet cryoed PC's.  The black sands did provide a bit more punch in the lower levels, and more detail but the effect was somewhat subtle.  I tried plugging the amps into a Belkin pure power av power conditioner and that was a big detriment to the sound.  Klaus recommends you plug the amps direct to the wall and it definitely works for me.  I did purchase an upgraded power outlet (porter port) which was a better upgrade than the power cords especially for the $$.   In my system upgrading the front end has made the biggest difference over the years.  I am always pleasantly surprised when I upgrade a front end component.  My system sounds 180 better than when I first purchased it four years ago, in part due to break in, cable upgrades, but mostly due to front end and tube upgrades in the Candela.

My one suggestion as previously stated is plug the amps into the wall and see if that makes a difference.  For me amp break in did take time, I would say after 200 hours I had a good impression of the final sound although the amps did improve over the course of the first year.

- Martin 

[kingdeezie]

I don't see where you read anything I posted on this thread as anything other then offering information.

I wasn't insulting any of your equipment. I was merely suggesting a different methodology for improving your sound on a whole within the confines of the money you have already spent.

Arguably, the preamplifier section of an audio system is the heart, and next to the speakers and room interactions, can mark the most difference in sound by upgrading.

I have heard the Peachtree Decco, and while I appreciated it for what it offers at its price point (I have recommended it to many people looking for a nice all-in-one for a low price); I do not feel it is on the same level as either the Plinuis piece or Odyssey pieces.   

I did miss the post where you said you used the Decco with the Plinuis integrated; but I still stand by my statement that spending 5K on any amplification and putting the Nova in front of it is not a cost efficient way of upgrading your sound.

Good luck in any event.


 
 

[lazydays]

If Odyssey amps take 3 months to burn in why is there only a 30 day return policy 

ask Klaus, as it's his game
gary

[lazydays]

Thank you Gary and BobC.

I should borrow another preamp to see what happens. That will obviously make a difference, and a big one depending on what I use. But where can I get a great sounding DAC and a preamp for under $1200 combined? PLus I just bought the damn Nova after using the Decco and loving that but found I needed the Home Theatre bypass function so I upgraded to the Nova. The pre and DAC sections are supposed to be identical. The tube circuit is not impressive. Squooshes the soundstage and dynamics.

So the Nova is plugged into a Richard Gray 400S Power Conditioner using a MagicPower 15a 1 meter power cable, and there is a MagicPower cable connecting the RGPC to the wall. Both Stratos Monos are plugged into the RGPC using the supplied ICE power cables. From what I have read and been told, upgrading power cables on the Stratos does not improve the performance that much until you get into the $600 and over leagues. Anybody care to weigh in on that subject?

The preamp is hooked up correctly.

I could be using higher quality interconnects this is true. Speaker cables are OCOS II (from Dynaudio) 2 meter lengths. Power Cables already mentioned.

Speakers are 4 ohm 88db sensitivity. Thanks

Your amps will not have the slightests trouble driving a 4 Ohm load, but I think these amps are much like tubes in that they really show their stuff with high impedence loads. Take the cables out of the power conditioner and plug them directly into the wall. These amps really want a solid 15 amps. If your near me I have a preamp I can loan you to try. Lastly does the preamp your using invert the phase?
gary

[lazydays]

I think at this point if you hate the amplifiers, they are not going to be your cup of tea.

I did notice that mine took quite a while to break in, and they went through many changes, but you should have a general sense of what you are going to end up with right now. Highs might smooth out and extend a little bit more and bass will get tighter, but outside of that I don't think its going to completely 180.

Its also not a power issue. At 4 OHMS, your amplifier is likely putting out plenty of wattage and current.

Also, I would be willing to guarantee you that the amplifier section of the Plinus can't hold a candle to the amplifiers you have now in terms of power and current output.   

The amplifiers you have right now, assuming that they are close to kismet, and going to be very neutral; and exactly what is in front of them is exactly what you are going to get.

That means that the quality of surrounding components is going to play a huge role in what you are hearing.

I am not sure what you are going for, but I would think that your allotment priorities are a little askew.

The Plinus integrated retails for 4200, something close to the Kismet from Klaus in monoblock form new would also be around that (3-4K).

Spending all that cash on an amplifier to power it with a 1100 dollar all-in-one preamp/DAC/Amp combo is not very efficient, and is likely leading to your displeasure.

Like many have stated, you need a new preamplifier.

If you can't swing a new preamplifier at this point, I'd recommend returning that amplifiers and getting the stereo version of the Stratos, which will still have more gusto then the 30 pound amplifier section in the Plinus, and use that money to purchase a suitable replacement to your preamplifier section.

I've had everything prom a $200 B&K to a Candella in front of my amps at one time or another. Tube preamps are for sure the ticket. One of the best sounding preamps I've used was a slightly (as in nearly new) Conrad Johnson that I paid $521 for.The very worst was an Adcom. The Candella with an external DAC is probably what he needs. Also he needs to trry another kind of speaker cables.







 

[lazydays]

TJHUB, thanks for posting that. Cables and interconnects can make a big difference. I am glad it worked out for you. I may experiemnt with that. Also, I saw that listing on AG but the guy seems to be a flake. Long story - but basically, he refused to call me, emailed me from three different addresses, never checked one of 'em etc... Was not comfortable with him, but loved the unit he was selling. Anyway, they say synergy is everything, and maybe the Plinius sound is just a nice fit with my gear. I do really love certain things about these Monos though. The soundstage is bigger I think. Definitely wider. Excellent placement of instruments within it. Some stuff sounds absolutely fantastic on it. Can't figure this out....

Experimented with different slope settings on Nova - which I agree is the weak link in the equation. This improved the sound somewhat - sounded like it gave it more life. So my happyocity has improved there as a result. Someone suggested experimenting with new speaker placement. Great idea, as much as I hate doing this. I finally got them where I wanted them with my previous gear, after so many adjustments I hate to do that all over again.

I may return these to Klaus and try out the Extremes - not sure.  I think the term "180" may have been a bit harsh. I certainly don't hate them.  I do hear something special in them from time to time. The Dave Matthews LIve in Central Park DVD sounds fantastic in 2 channel . Certainly as good, and maybe even better than it did with the Plinius. That is one sweet recording. Then again, so is Steely Dan's Aja, but that sounded better with the Plinius. Hmmmm....

before the Odyssey amps came around I used almost nothing but Kimber, Cardas, and Synergistics cables. Most of the time I found the Cardas were my favorite speaker cables, but not always. Then I ordered in a pair of Gronenbergs with WBT ends on them. I liked them (although I hate the locking connection). Later on I need a pair of IC's with one pair being a little longer than I had laying around. The ones from the Preamp to the amps really seemed to make a difference.
gary

[johnzm]

4 posts at once? dam!

anyways how about we let the guy give us a general area where he lives first, because i also have odyssey extreme mono's and i have a dodd preamp i would not mind taking over for a listen. i have also heard on my system, a candella, manley shrimp, and a VTL preamp, and i believe the preamp makes at least as much difference as changing speakers. 

and so far in my quest for happiness, the amps have not once held me back

[Musky_Don]

Fred,

Don here.  I believe I talked with you prior to you making the purchase from Klaus.  I just stumbled on your post.  Sorry to see  that you are having some difficulty getting things set-up to your liking.  As we discussed, I have used various Dynaudio speakers with the Extreme Monos and have thoroughly enjoyed the synergy that the Dyn/Ody combination brings to the listening experience.  Presently, I have a pair of Confidence C2s, and a pair of Focus 220s (paired with a set of ‘standard’ monos).  I have owned and demoed in home many others throughout the Dyn line including your speaker - the S3.4.  I share this on the board as I feel confident saying that there is no Dyn/Ody ‘dissymmetry‘, they simply complement one another as being very accurate, fast, neutral and natural sounding.  I have also listened to Dyns with other high-end amps including Octave, Arcam, McIntosh, Simaudio, Parasound and others.  To my ears, the Ody/Dyn combo is similar to and as good as if not better than Arcam/Dyn and Simaudio/Dyn systems costing quite a bit more $$$.  I have used several front end combos both SS and tubed and never found one that sounded horrible, but I can say for certain that the Ody/Dyn combo will reveal front end weaknesses.  As we discussed, I don’t have experience with your pre/DAC equipment.

As you can see, I’m  a fan of Dynaudio.  I am also a fan of Odyssey.  I have messed around with different cables/wires, and never had a combo that sounded like crap.   In my humble opinion, even Home Depot speaker wire sounds good with this combo (yes, I have tried it on a long run out to my ‘Florida Room’).

There is a possibility that you may not like the sound of the Dyn/Ody combo.  Based on what I recall of our conversation, I think that’s unlikely, but maybe having the equipment actually in house just doesn’t match up to what you like in a system.  Assuming that is not the case, I agree with many of the comments here that you may have a power quality issue or maybe your pre-amp is adding some unwanted ‘color’ to the music.  Again, my opinion of the amp and speaker combo is that you get the most out of what is in the recording (whether you want to hear any  recording limitations or not).

I’d be happy to help troubleshoot if you want, just send me a note again with your number.  Plug the amps into the wall.  Don’t worry abut having enough power.  The amps will easily drive the S3.4s.  Also, I recall you are in the Philly area.  You may find an AC member willing to drop by with some other gear for a comparative listen (generally AC folks will bring most anything over during Happy Hour  ).

Anyway, this post is longer than I wanted but I’m in a rush so I’ll just post it rather than attempt to edit.  Again, bummer that you have not yet achieved audio nirvana.  I wouldn’t give up on the amp/speaker combo until you have a chance to experiment with other gear.  I'm sure Klaus will do right by you should you not want to keep them.  He's a quality guy as you've noted.  After we talked I got the upgrade bug and have talked with him about some interesting options.  Just need to come up with the scratch.  Damn this audio habit. 

Good luck,

Don

[ducky7566]

Hello, I am interested right now, for the purchase of new amps, stratos mono extreme SE +++++. I'm in France, it is more logical and practical to sell my extreme mono blocks that I adore, and buy last SE + + +, with all the updates .. .

I spoke with Peter, the dealer ODYSSEY EUROPE, and he guaranteed a win very interesting ...

So, I'd like to know if some of you have done the update mono extreme SE, have you felt more a gain, are you happy ... 

Now, to talk about extreme stratos mono ... Easy ... 

when I bought new, a little over a year, I had read this forum, and I knew he had to be patient, that some day it would happen "something" ...
and it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! truthful  ...

 
after three, four months in use "normal", 3 5 hours per day, stratospheric themselves """... open 

the sound was much more detail, more airy, and defined ...
My electric setup is rotten ... and no problems so far

in 18 months, I used a lot of speakers ... 
 
Infinity KAPPA 8A, fabulous speakers, and extremely difficult to feed ... because of their impedance, and descents into 2 ohms, see less ...

I bought JBL TI 250 limited edition ...
the stratos walked quietly ... although the 250 accept more power. ... greedy but no penalties for stratos ... Relax, everything was here ... cool

After I bought the Infinity Kappa 9A ... 
pregnant as difficult, were not much ... 
 
arnie Nuddel, the designer of kappa 9 A, told the press ... 

Gentlemen, I hereby kappa 9a my latest creation ... 
these speakers are "the end of all discussions" ... 


5-way speakers, 7 speakers, raids unless an ohm ... 

I do not think your amps as solicit dyn ...  stratos but the drive fingers in the nose ...    easy, relaxed ... serious infinity are defined, ubiquitous, and the richness and consistency are masterful ... 

the stage sound, and the fabulous dip .....
the stratos is there ... present, no weaknesses ... stamps delicious ...
Quick, veloce, they push the music and speakers ... never troll ... 

and now, I also bought some JBL 4435 STUDIO MONITOR ... 


like this, stratos send sounds from hell, my friends on jbl forum tell me to make bi-amplification ...  :roll:I say not worth it ...
I am already so happy with the result .... 

to clarify, my system: 2 blocks extreme stratos mono, 16 sp audioreseach preamp, cd player Yaqin SD 32 A, cable modul WM, Belkin Pure AV speaker cable, speaker infinity kappa 9A, AND JBL 4435 ...

I'm already super happy with my set ... I wonder what that could give the version stratos mono extreme SE +++++++ 

See you soon, ducky on Frenchi ... 

[Knownothing]

So fredorama, did you try plugging the Mono's directly into the wall?  It seems to me if one of the assests of the Odysseys (particularly the juiced versions) is their high current output, you would not want anything that might act as a current limiter in the electrical supply chain unless your power is really, really dirty.  I know big power supplies are suppose to mitigate this, but I find amps generally sound better with the simplest and shortest path to the wall socket.

I also think you should keep an open mind about the affects your preamp is having in this chain.  The Odysseys are pretty revealing, and it is possible that the Nova is not the preferred partner here.  I would think that a really good solid state pre like a Modwright or a tube pre with a relatively low output impedance would be a better match.

So, why is Nova a better match with the Plinius??  Some gear is colored in a "good way" and sounds more musical to many ears.  I think Naim falls into this category, and perhaps Plinius does too, where whatever the Nova is feeding it is synergystic whereas with the Odysseys, the character of the Nova's output is just getting in the way, or worse, laid bare for your ears to hear.  Maybe this is your cup of tea, in which case the Oyddsseys may not be.

I really like the Nova as a stand alone piece for the money.  You have a very grown up system here, and in agreement with a previous poster, I think you may be trying to get by on the front end a bit on the cheap.  Before ditching the monos, I would experiment with different front ends, and as suggested, speaker wires as well. 

And if you haven't already, plug your amps directly into the wall.

[Nicholas Bedworth]

Regarding break-in, allow for 90+ days of CONTINUOUS operation (and blast them with the Reference Recording conditioning track when you're away) before they will be completely ready for critical listening.

And forget the preamp, just drive them directly with a DAC. The Lavry DA-11 ($1480) or Weiss DAC 202 ($6700) will "work"   Of course the Weiss is superb and very flexible, replacing a preamp as well for many applications.

[smata67]

I know this is a dated thread, but I want to put out my experience with the Khartago mono extreme se from Klaus, new red boards, not broken in.  When I first got them, I honestly considered sending them back, the sound was "odd" in a way I can't quite explain. I was VERY disappointed, having waited three months for them. I've listened to Mark Knopfler for decades, Elton John too, voices just were not "right."  Well, I'm not one to flip equipment and months passed, unit left on.  Yes, a complete 180.  They do seem to get better over time--three months, six, who knows, but a year later and I'm ABSOLUTELY thrilled by the performance.  The sound out of my Thiels is captivating, so hard to turn these off when I get them started, listening late into the evenings: classical, jazz, anything.  Fantastic sound.  Cables?  A bunch of horsesh*t, it's wire for God's sake!  But the break in issue with Odyssey amps is REAL.  Best to get a used unit if you don't have the patience.

[Nicholas Bedworth]

aha! perseverance furthers...

My Kismet-in-Stratos cases just keep sounding better and bettter... they're on 24 hours a day, and when I'm away on a trip, have conditioning tracks going through at reasonably loud levels. If you just use the amps from time to time, sure, it could take several months to settle in.

Regarding cable break-in, it's really conditioning, in the sense that nothing is being worn down (for example as would be the case with piston rings). Instead, among other things, the dialectric material charges up. You can hear this quite clearly over a 1-2 week period.