[chgolatin2]

I had a chance to auditioned two different tube systems at a retail local shop, me personally I love the tube sound, warm, lush and it just sounds right to my ears "IMO" versus SS.  I owned a Tube Integrated Amp currently however,  I notice something quite different and better sounding that I may have missed during my years.  I notice that a Tube Amp and Pre Amp sounded way better than an Integrated amp now I was under the impression that it really didn't make a difference but then again I have NEVER own an Amp and Pre Amp, my train of thought was to keep it as simple as I could, financially etc.  Well, needless to say that I may go back to the drawing boards "again!" 

Can anybody share as to why is their such a huge difference in sound?    

Thanks to all in advance~ 

LOVE TUBE SOUND!

[EthanH]

I have no relevant technical knowledge, but I have also noticed that separates often sound better than integrateds, although it does depend on the quality of the integrated.  I also have an integrated, and while I like it I've heard separates that are much better.  I think a big part of it is the performance of the preamp, as integrateds IMO tend to skimp in that area.  I've actually been thinking about adding a tube pre to my integrated.

[low.pfile]

[snip].....I notice that a Solid Tube Amp and Pre Amp sounded way better than an Integrated amp

What do you mean by Solid Tube Amp? Possibly a Hybrid (SS and Tube?)

I am considering going the other way from amp + preamp to an integrated amp for simplicity. not sure yet though.

[Kim S.]

I cannot comment on tube integrateds, but I can tell you that my current setup, a tube preamp with hybrid (solid state with tube outputs)monoblocks  sounds way better than my previous solid state integregrated.  The solid state amp sounded dry and clinical compared to the tube system.  I also have a bedroom system that is entirely tubes, tube preamp and tube monoblocks, that sounds wonderful.  The bass is not as defined as the other setup, but its fantastic with vocals.  In general I think most systems would benefit with at least some tubes inthem

[chgolatin2]

Why would you add a Pre Amp to an Integrated Amp?  Does it really serves the purpose?  The integrated amp already has a Pre Amp :scratch:now I'm confused!

I have no relevant technical knowledge, but I have also noticed that separates often sound better than integrateds, although it does depend on the quality of the integrated.  I also have an integrated, and while I like it I've heard separates that are much better.  I think a big part of it is the performance of the preamp, as integrateds IMO tend to skimp in that area.  I've actually been thinking about adding a tube pre to my integrated.

[chgolatin2]

Sorry my bad, typo!  I meant to say Tube Amp, not Solid State Amp or Hybrid!  Personally, I am not big into Hybrids either you go all the way or don't IMO!

What do you mean by Solid Tube Amp? Possibly a Hybrid (SS and Tube?)

I am considering going the other way from amp + preamp to an integrated amp for simplicity. not sure yet though.

[Stu Pitt]

Not all seperates outperform all integrateds, and vice versa.  Same can be said for tube vs solid state.  Its the implementation of the technology, the quality of parts used, and the follow through during production.  There's no one way to build things that'll be an absolute best way.  I'm sure a lot of people would prefer a McIntosh integrated amp over NAD seperates.

Audition everything on its own merits.  There are a ton of excellent integrated amps that I'd take over equally priced seperates.  There are just as many seperates I'd take over equally priced integrateds.  Integrateds aren't a convenience only component.

What you heard in the tube system you mentioned may have nothing to do with tubes at all.

[Thebiker]

FWIW, I auditioned Mac SS separates (no, I don't remember the model #'s) in my home followed by a Cary SLI 80 integrated.  I bought the Cary and have never looked back.  YMMV, but I am hooked on tubes & love the simplicity of a good tubed integrated.

Walt

[silver_strings]

Th advantage of separates is that each part has its own power supply and the magnetic and RF fields from one amp doesnt affect the other as much which results in a blacker background (this is minimal though) , but the big negative for me is that you need to connect them to each other via RCA cables which means you have to use a really high quality cable to minimize loss of detail and even then it wont be as good as the direct connection a preamp and power amp have.

An integrated that uses separate power supplys for the pre and power amps all built into one chassis would probably be better than the equivalent separates. I dont personally know of any integrated like this although I'm sure theyre out there.

on a small side note, my xindak dac uses two power supplies one for the analog and the other for the digital sections and its one the best sounding dac's I've heard beating many higher end dac's I've owned

[eclein]

Not sure if this helps...but I've found using a SS amp with a Tube DAC/preamp sounds great and its only one tube to change the sound to whatever flavor you like.
I use a Virtue TWO.2 converted into an amp only being controlled by a Grant Fidelity Tube DAC-09 that's been converted into a passive pre-amp with an easy jumper mod. I have solid state power and the awesome tube flavor, I even threw in a Tube Buffer as well for some more nice tube flavor...all for less then 1K...FWIW

[lcrim]

I'm not really sure what this thread is about.
As to whether one should choose either a SS or tubed preamp or amp and in what combination, my opinion is that with affordable, quality components, SS or tube, the sound quality is the highest priority not whether its gain is provided by tubes or SS.
Over the years, I've noticed that the amount of gain in a system can serve to multiply the noise in a system.  Quality tube preamps need to be very quiet and these tend to be costly for that reason. 

[JLM]

Tubes have poor damping, so bass can become exagerated and loose (the deeper the worse).  Tubes also change sound as they age.  And combinations of any tube effects gets hard to predict.  OTOH it's hard to deny the magic that tubes can provide.

With separates you have two boxes, two power supplies, plus a pair of interconnects, and the compatibility issues between components.  As Stu eluded to, does this extra cost and confusion pay compared to investing more into a hopefully better integrated?

Separates and tubes allow the male hunter instinct to be expressed more fully.  Be careful that you're not satisfying that need at the cost of better sound.

[Steve]

I had a chance to auditioned two different tube systems at a retail local shop, me personally I love the tube sound, warm, lush and it just sounds right to my ears "IMO" versus SS.  I owned a Tube Integrated Amp currently however,  I notice something quite different and better sounding that I may have missed during my years.  I notice that a Tube Amp and Pre Amp sounded way better than an Integrated amp now I was under the impression that it really didn't make a difference but then again I have NEVER own an Amp and Pre Amp, my train of thought was to keep it as simple as I could, financially etc.  Well, needless to say that I may go back to the drawing boards "again!" 

Can anybody share as to why is their such a huge difference in sound?    

Thanks to all in advance~ 

LOVE TUBE SOUND!

I have an article explaining frequency dependent musical feedback between stages through the power supply. This is just one consideration.

http://www.sasaudiolabs.com/theory8a.htm

In fact, in order to completely avoid this problem, one needs separate power supplies for each stage and channel. Regulators can work extremely  well, but must be meticulously designed in order to avoid their own problems.

Cheers.

[Steve]

Tubes have poor damping, so bass can become exagerated and loose (the deeper the worse). 

Yes, but from my understanding, most speakers are designed for SS amps which exhibit lower output impedances (Z). If the speakers were designed for higher output impedances that tube amplifiers exhibit, the bass would be quite taut. I found Gr Research (AV-3) and Von Schweikerts to be a prime examples of great damping when driven by tube amplifiers with higher Z, and also work quite well with SS amps. 

Maybe a speaker manufacturer can elaborate in more detail.

Cheers.