[mcrespo71]

Nope, the PARADOX PROSELYTIZER BS1 is all I'm gonna need for the rest of my life.

[djbnh]

I hope they can make mine the same color as the Emperor's new clothes.  

[Tonto Yoder]

Actually, your Rega might actually be a great match for the Parasound belt drive.  It's bland and lacks slam, authority and dynamics.  That's why Dan Wright is modding mine at this time. He promised to take care of that.  

Any reason to bring this up? Other than your usual need to focus attention on yourself rather than actually contribute something substantive??
Wonder how many threads have been hijacked by the Technics direct-drive tirade??

[Rocket]

Hi,

I don't want to get into a mud slinging match with anyone but it is getting a bit boring hearing about the technics direct drive turntables.

I'm actually thinking of not posting anymore on the vinyl forum because it is continually hijacked by you know who.

I respect others opinions but dislike it when it is rammed down my throat.

regards

rod

[Psychicanimal]

Hi,

I don't want to get into a mud slinging match with anyone but it is getting a bit boring hearing about the technics direct drive turntables.

I'm actually thinking of not posting anymore on the vinyl forum because it is continually hijacked by you know who.

I respect others opinions but dislike it when it is rammed down my throat.

regards

rod

I am going to keep statistics on reading comprehension problems.  This was my first post here:

Those "lesser belt drive" units, as I call them, will not give you proper speed/rotational stability.  Your music will sound bland, unfocused, without snap and with wobbly transient decays.  I strongly suggest you do not waste your money on those units.

There is a thread in Audiogon about making TT bases w/ Home Depot materials.  Worth checking out.

Also, if you're using a tube phono stage I would stick to MM cartridges.  The more quiet and paced and steady your platter's rotation is the more  ...

Rocket, Tonto and the others:

Read it as many times as necessary 'till you get it.    You can always take remedial English classes.  Also for your convenience (and because I want to be nice) here's the link to the Home Depot thread:

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?eanlg&1075644493&read&3&4&

The project has NOTHING to do with a Technics 1200.

Any questions?  Don't ask me.

[nathanm]

I should note that the Proselytizer BS1 is a very finicky deck.  If for whatever reason (room acoustics, listener's mood, wife clanking dishes in the kitchen when you're trying to listen etc.) you are not liking what you are hearing it may cease to function altogether.  If at any time you do not agree with what the Proselytizer BS1 is telling you sonically (in it's most tactful manner, of course) it may sputter, fizzle and stop spinning.  (many might agree this is a Good Thing, though)

However, this is easily fixed with an auxillary Toy Package, did I say toys?  No I meant to say an auxillary High Performance Serious Audio package for Serious Listeners With A Plan. This package includes a very exciting power conditioner for the power supply, cryo-treated headshell screws, cryo-treated tonearm cable,  (it's silver!) and highly polished and highly cryo-treated stylus tip (it's unobtainium!), plus another rack full of power conditioners to plug the first power conditioner into. (Full specs on all this stuff will be provided in the box along with a panel of gold star stickers, a brass trophy for Audiophile Award Of Merit, and a handheld mirror for admiring the man who made such an excellent purchase decision!)  

Additonally, the BS1 offers an optional DJ cartridge and crossfader box so you can drop dope beats for your homies.

Everytime you listen to the BS1 the noise floor will get lower and lower.  Remeber the last time you heard the BS1 when the noise floor was like, WAY LOW?  Well, it'll be even lower now!  And it will keep getting lower and lower each week!  Awesome!  Hell, your friends will be able to tell you what pick material Eric Clapton is using from over a cell phone passing under a bridge if they heard your BS1 playing in the background.  That is how good it is.  Don't believe me?  Too bad, you HAVE to believe it!  Everything about the BS1 is a FACT and don't you forget it!  

You don't want to buy the BS1 from the enigneering geniuses at Paradox Audio?  FINE, go back to your pitiful soggy-sounding toy turntables running at 33.333333 RPM - meanwhile the faithful followers will be rocking out at 33.3333333 RPM where the transients are so way kick ass and like the decays are spot-on, not like that shit you get at 33.333333 RPM you foolish weaklings!  The user manual is available for download at the Paradox Audio website, but only for those who agree with everything it says---er I mean, for those without reading comprehension issues.

[doug s.]

this thread is so ridiculous...  have anyone of y'all who bash francisco & his technics ever *heard* one, in a quality audiophile rig?  i have, and, if my budget were <$1k, & i had to have a new deck, a kab-modded sl1200 would get the nod.  or a stock one, if i had to be even cheaper.

now, does this mean the technics is my first choice in this price range?  absolutely not - cuz i'm a cheapskate, & would prefer a used turntable, like an oracle delphi, sota star, well-tempered classic, roksan xerxes, etc.  these & a slew of others can be had for $1k or less.  and, these do outperform the sl1200, imo.  tho, others like francisco, *still* prefer their technics'...  

doug s.

[Carlman]

I don't think it matters if anyone's heard it or not, they're just tired of hearing about it.  I'd consider the Technic's... it's in my budget but, I haven't heard many people compare turntables... if ever.  Of all the turntables I've heard... maybe 5 or 6...?  they all depended on the cartridge and the rest of the system as to how they sounded.  

I think being able to hear fractions of a percent of change in platter speed is beyond my interest or anyone's interest in a turntable costing less than $500 which is my case... maybe the Home Depot inspired project can do it better than the Sony I recommended but, the ONLY way I'd be convinced is if someone else built it and brought it to my house and compared it directly.

So, bring it.  I have nothing to prove and everything to gain.  But, I don't like the vinyl pissing matches and wish they'd end with facts and data.

[mcrespo71]

cuz i'm a cheapskate, & would prefer a used turntable, like an oracle delphi

Why would you consider a TT that can't keep it's speed, Doug S?  As I mentioned before, I measured the speed of an Oracle Delphi MK V I helped a friend set up with my KAB strobe disc and it was approximately 1% fast.  

Thus, even though it sounded great to me, it can't sound good according to Francisco-

There's absolutely no way a poor measuring platter will sound good. Remember, half of the music is in the record. The other half--the time domain axis--is the platter's responsibility.

I am curious to hear the Technics modded 1200 in NYC.  Anyone have one?

Michael

[mcrespo71]

I would just like to point out that NathanM's posts are PRICELESS!!  You should become a comedian!    

[JoshK]

As far as I am concerned this thread isn't out of line.  I think it is OK to disagree and it is ok that people give Francisco heck because he invites it upon himself with his unidimensional thinking and inability to grasp that others might see things differently.

PA say that speed matters more than anything else.  Fine.  But that is to him, others clearly don't find this to be the case and have found, often through more experience than his, that other things can make or break the setup.  

I think all of this discord helps people make up their own minds and research the differences of opinions, so therefor it has worth.

[Tonto Yoder]

As far as I am concerned this thread isn't out of line.  I think it is OK to disagree ...

I don't think it's a question of stifling disagreement--it's perfectly OK with me if PA suggests the Technics as an alternative to the usual audiophile suspects like Regas, MMF's, Pro-jects et al.  It's just the monomaniacal drone of his posts that gets to be tiresome and, undoubtedly, discouraging to vinyl newbies I would think (I HAVE in fact forgotten even WHO the first poster in this thread is; every TT thread turns into the same  thread once the rant begins).

[doug s.]

Quote:
cuz i'm a cheapskate, & would prefer a used turntable, like an oracle delphi


Why would you consider a TT that can't keep it's speed, Doug S? As I mentioned before, I measured the speed of an Oracle Delphi MK V I helped a friend set up with my KAB strobe disc and it was approximately 1% fast.

Thus, even though it sounded great to me, it can't sound good according to Francisco-
Quote:
There's absolutely no way a poor measuring platter will sound good. Remember, half of the music is in the record. The other half--the time domain axis--is the platter's responsibility.
 


I am curious to hear the Technics modded 1200 in NYC. Anyone have one?

Michael

well, i *do* own an oracle, & it keeps its speed yust fine, thank you!  of course, having an origin-live dc motor kit, w/a mondo hewlett packard  laboratory power supply doesn't hurt...     it's infinitely adjustable, & the speed is dead-on, set w/a strobe disc...  

but, what i tink francisco is talking about re: speed control isn't so much whether the platter spins at exactly 33.33 rpms, but whether the platter/motor set-up has enuff inertia to prevent small speed changes induced by stylus drag.  this isn't typically visible to the eye, even w/a strobe disc, but it *is* audible, & a rig whose platter speed is immune from stylus drag will sound better.  this is one of the areas where the technics does well...

doug s.

[JoshK]

Just get a Teres kit... There is no substitute for mass!

[mcrespo71]

Just get a Teres kit... There is no substitute for mass!

If you are a DIYer, then this is a GREAT option for a TT.  I've heard Josh's and though I have no idea if it runs at EXACTLY 33.3333333333333 RPM, it sounds excellent.  Of course, I guess using a strobe disc is no longer kosher for measuring speed, so it wouldn't matter if it measured at 33.33333333RPM because the ear is now the de facto speed measuring standard.

Michael

[nathanm]

The lesson here cmscott6, (unless you're smart, and stopped reading this thread ) is that you should never ask more than one audiophile a simple question, because you will just stir up a shitstorm of evangelizing by guys (well, one guy in this case) who take this stuff waaaay too seriously.  A lot of it is basically creative writing run amok - people will hear something, exaggerate their description of the sound, perhaps falsely attribute what they hear to something completely unrelated.  All of that is perfectly fine, but here's where the problem starts: they will now take that and defend this experience to their death, declaring their opinions as factual and immutable.  Does this sound like fun to you?  I know it doesn't to me.

Find a good turntable, (and a cleaning machine is mighty handy too) set it up as best you can and start spinning some records.  Don't get all griefed up about this insane minutia, it's not worth it.  Besides, sometimes when you play a song at the wrong speed (half speed, or backwards too) it sounds kinda cool.  Just watch out for those subsonic frequencies - you wouldn't want to accidentally hit the Brown Note, or collapse your house!

[doug s.]

yes, i agree that the teres is a great rig - especially for the $$$...  platter mass & stable motor has a lot to do w/it.  but, it's a bit more than the $1k or less budget that is the topic of this thread.

doug s.

[mcrespo71]

Josh K was able to build his Teres for around 1K, but I don't know if he used a Teres kit or not.  Josh?

Michael

[JoshK]

Well all in all, not sure how much I actually spent, probably around $1k not including the arm and cart.   But Rega Rb300 was @ $200 and cart around $500.  It was a very fun project.  I would love to do it again actually.   So if anyone local wants to build one, give me a buzz.

[Psychicanimal]

I measured the speed of an Oracle Delphi MK V I helped a friend set up with my KAB strobe disc and it was approximately 1% fast.
Michael

Doug's Oracle is not the Oracle *you* measured.  His is about as good as it's going to get on a belt drive w/o external flywheel in the under $5K category: Origin Live DC kit, big Hewlett Packard lab grade external power supply (load sensing).  It's no coincidence the 1200's platter and the Oracle's have a very similar shape (can someone answer this question?  Nathan, perhaps?).  And, BTW, I have heard Doug's Oracle.

Of course, I guess using a strobe disc is no longer kosher for measuring speed, so it wouldn't matter if it measured at 33.33333333RPM because the ear is now the de facto speed measuring standard.

Michael

You still have NO idea what I'm talking about.

I have to go, here's a preview of what all the children exept Carlman have been reluctant (or unable) to discuss:

http://www.terrypogue.com/Johnnantais/john.html