Plethora of Integrated Amps

weirdo · « **on:** 15 Apr 2010, 10:42 pm »

I am interested in an integrated amp, around 100 wats, solid state, with at least a decent mm stage. Trouble is, there is a whole bunch of them. I want to stay away from the "mass market" audiophile gear like Cambridge or Marantz. I don't know why, I just suspect that there are some killer amps out there that I am not aware of. Any good ideas welcome.
( btw, Van Alstine's integrtated is on my list.) cheers

gerald porzio · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 Apr 2010, 11:24 pm »

You budget & rm. size would be helpful.

Bemopti123 · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 Apr 2010, 11:31 pm »

If it is not 100Watts, I heartily recommend a LFD MKIII ZERO. It punches way, way above its price class. The sound has my jaws dropping to the floor....and it competes in the midrange delivery almost with SET amps in fluidity. Now, all tube lovers, go ahead, flog me.

toobluvr · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 Apr 2010, 12:09 am »

Hey...here's one toobluvr that won't laugh!

I am having great success with a 120 wpc SS integrated -- Redgum RGi-120. The sheer bass power and detail, smooth liquid mids and clean, open spacious highs on this amp are almost breathtaking at times -- usually with vinyl -- of course!

It is fast and very easy to listen to. Getting great synergy with my speaks.

Despite my handle, I'm currently searching for a SS amp myself. Betraying my normal preferences, but hey, ya gotta feed the speakers what they need! I have several highly regarded SS amps in for a comparo, names you all know, some are class A circuits. So far my fave is the Redgum. I'm not alone. I've had several audio buddies over and they too prefer it. Trust me, I can hardly believe it either. But there you have it.

Look into it. Not much info out there, but that is surely more a function of marketing than performance. Google will find some comments / reviews.....all enthusiastic. I think it rec'd a Soundstage Reviewer's Choice Award.

Good luck finding one used! I initially bought the small Redgum integrated (35 wpc) for my BR system. Liked it so much on a pair of Devore Gibbons monitors (and every other spkr I put it on) I pounced on the first RGi-120 I came across. Very rarely seen on the used markets. Just sold the little integrated to a local guy. He too loves it -- so much that he is begging me to sell him the bigger one. Sorry Charlie.

Very unassuming looks, very non-audiophile in appearance. Don't be fooled. This amp really cooks!....a nicely balanced combination of finesse and brawn.

Good luck in your search!

grigore · « **Reply #4 on:** 16 Apr 2010, 10:13 am »

I had in my sistems but I've sold it Creek A 50iR but this one have just 50W. The bigger brother Classic 5350SE is better (90W). I also used for a while Symphonic Line RG 10 mk3 which is a very fine amplifier (140W). RG 10 MK3 is one of the best amplifiers I've ever had in hand.

doug s. · « **Reply #5 on:** 16 Apr 2010, 03:30 pm »

sansui au717/719/919/11000.

revox b251.

doug s.

toobluvr · « **Reply #6 on:** 16 Apr 2010, 03:46 pm »

All older stuff, eh Doug? I don't know about them specifically, but do you really think they hang sonically with good modern integrateds?

I still have my old Sansui 771 receiver I bought new in 1975. I am actually surprised at how good it still sounds -- smooth, rich and powerful -- but it doesn't even come close to modern stuff wrt to transparency, resolution and dimensionality.

doug s. · « **Reply #7 on:** 16 Apr 2010, 04:02 pm »

Quote from: toobluvr on 16 Apr 2010, 03:46 pm

All older stuff, eh Doug? I don't know about them specifically, but do you really think they hang sonically with good modern integrateds?

I still have my old Sansui 771 receiver I bought new in 1975. I am actually surprised at how good it still sounds -- smooth, rich and powerful -- but it doesn't even come close to modern stuff wrt to transparency, resolution and dimensionality.

yes, i do, otherwise i wouldn't have mentioned them. i bought & sold a sansui au717 and a revox b251 - both were outstanding. for solid-state, anyways, haha! i still own a sansui au11000, a beast of an amp; presently filling my ex's & my kid's home w/pleasant sounds... and, these old guys, with their pre outs/main ins, will allow using as amp or preamp only, or you can actively bi-amp w/tubes or even use an outboard x-over and a tube amp for your main speakers, and the integrated amp's amp for the subs...

doug s.

JLM · « **Reply #8 on:** 16 Apr 2010, 04:05 pm »

I agree, some of the mainstream options are probably good but I suspect that you can do much better.

What about the Odyssey Cyclops ($995, 110 wpc). Klaus has a stelar reputation for outstanding value, great built, and lots of personal service, but the Cyclops only has a single input.

Another Audio Circle option would be Audio by Van Alstine ($1499, 90 wpc). Frank knows his stuff and future proofs as much as possible.

Why are you thinking of 100 wpc? (50 wpc is only down 3 dB from 100 wpc.)

srb · « **Reply #9 on:** 16 Apr 2010, 04:09 pm »

Quote from: toobluvr on 16 Apr 2010, 03:46 pm

.... but do you really think they hang sonically with good modern integrateds?

I still have my old Sansui 771 receiver I bought new in 1975. I am actually surprised at how good it still sounds -- smooth, rich and powerful -- but it doesn't even come close to modern stuff wrt to transparency, resolution and dimensionality.

I don't think the technology for discrete amplification has changed all that much over the years. But I think as capacitors eventually degrade over 30+ years, you loose - transparency, resolution and dimensionality.

Quote from: JLM on 16 Apr 2010, 04:05 pm

Why are you thinking of 100 wpc? (50 wpc is only down 3 dB from 100 wpc.)

And depending on the sensitivity of the speakers, 3dB of headroom can make all the difference in squashing dynamics.

Steve

toobluvr · « **Reply #10 on:** 16 Apr 2010, 04:31 pm »

Quote from: srb on 16 Apr 2010, 04:09 pm

I don't think the technology for discrete amplification has changed all that much over the years. But I think as capacitors eventually degrade over 30+ years, you loose - transparency, resolution and dimensionality.

Maybe that is what I am hearing. As good as that mid 70's stuff was in the day -- and it was VG -- I just don't see how without upgrades / changes it can hang with the good modern stuff I have heard. My 771 is of the same vintage Sansuis that Doug recs, and similar original MSRP, so I gotta believe sonically similar. But in its current original state, the modern gear just destroys it....not even close.

I'm an older guy who grew up with that gear. I have certainly not heard all stuff from that era, but enough of it to be fairly certain that the Redgum that I am listening to now (and posted about above) will simply smoke 'em all. But I've been wrong before, so who knows?

If I am, I need to start shopping vintage audio on E-bay and save tons of $$!

gerald porzio · « **Reply #11 on:** 16 Apr 2010, 05:45 pm »

70's gear is problematical @ best w/o knowing the pedigee & pwr. supply history. >30 yr. old caps are very iffy.

doug s. · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Apr 2010, 07:04 pm »

you can get a nice wintage integrated amp and upgrade caps/resistors to your heart's content - either diy, or pay someone like ezekiel over on agon, echowars on audiokarma, stephen sank of talking dog transducers, or your own fave tech. you will be ahead, sonically and costwise, imo.

oh, do not also forget wintage accuphase gear - also wery nice...

doug s.

doug s. · « **Reply #13 on:** 16 Apr 2010, 07:05 pm »

Quote from: gerald porzio on 16 Apr 2010, 05:45 pm

70's gear is problematical @ best w/o knowing the pedigee & pwr. supply history. >30 yr. old caps are very iffy.

don't worry gerald - as long as it measure the same, it's as good...

doug s.

gerald porzio · « **Reply #14 on:** 16 Apr 2010, 08:22 pm »

Some can't & won't measure because of the sanctity of their own hearing. These tend to change gear the way the rest of the world changes underware. Every minute difference gets elevated to epiphany status.

doug s. · « **Reply #15 on:** 17 Apr 2010, 12:37 am »

Quote from: gerald porzio on 16 Apr 2010, 08:22 pm

Some can't & won't measure because of the sanctity of their own hearing. These tend to change gear the way the rest of the world changes underware. Every minute difference gets elevated to epiphany status.

others only go by measurements because they can't hear.

most, i think, take a somewhat more balanced position, measuring and listening...

fwiw, the sansui au717 & au11000; and revox b251 i had in my system for awhile, had never been refurb'd, and still sounded superb and worked perfectly. (the au11000, as i mentioned, is still in serwice daily.) i don't doubt they could all be improved by refurb...

doug s.

gerald porzio · « **Reply #16 on:** 17 Apr 2010, 01:00 am »

Play them everyday for 8 to 12 hrs for 20 to 30 yrs., & then get back to me. There are exceptions to virtually every rule. FWIW, I go by measurements & listening. I just don't listen to exotic cables, tweaks & tubes to hear epiphanies.