thinking of tube amplifier

jdodmead · « **on:** 2 Apr 2010, 07:57 pm »

I now have Odyssey Stratos Mono Extreme's with Kismet innard's, VTL TL-5.5 mk II pre and Odyssey Lorelei speakers. The system sounds great, but I keep thinking that a tube amp might bring it up another notch. I went to visit Frank Alstine this morning to listen to his new UtraValve amp, but it's hard to tell how it would sound in my set up. It's lower powered than other amps that I've been considering from VTL, Audio Research, Rogue and Mac. Frank said that it would drive my speakers just fine. I know he has a 30 day satisfaction return policy, but I would hate to buy and return. Just talking out loud and looking for similiar experinces and any opinions.
I am happy with how it sounds currently and it may just be an upgrade bug that I'm going through.
Thanks
Jeff

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #1 on:** 2 Apr 2010, 08:07 pm »

I think on average, most people prefer tube amps to SS. Very few people can sit still in this hobby without exploring the possibilities, and most people rarely use all the power their amp puts out. The only way you'll know for sure is to try it out. There's nothing wrong with returning an amp within 30 days if need be.

TheChairGuy · « **Reply #2 on:** 2 Apr 2010, 08:22 pm »

Jeff,

In mid-2005, my amps were a couple of Odyssey Khartago Extreme monoblocks...the best offered in the Khartago line at the time.

I thought my search was over - I had picked thru scores of solid state amps and the Odyssey was the winner. With them playing, I could tolerate music. I was content - but not really happy - but I just figured I'm an unhappy music listener

Well, one night I was on ebay and for the hell of it I went to the tube amp area to see what was ending auction soon. Some guy up in Milwaukee was selling some 1960-era vintage Dukane 6CD6 tube monoblocks with a few minutes left on auction. There was 1 bid at about $300. I did a quick Google around to see if there was any information on Dukane tube amps and there was a trickle - and all good.

So, I bid...and won the amps for $300-odd + shipping.

These amps had seen duty in schools as PA amps for 50 years and were run continuously and never updated. When they came in the next week, they sat in the box for a day or three as I was relatively happy with my Odyssey's.

So, I put the Dukane tube monoblocks in the system and my music listening habits changed forever. Stone cold out of the box and 50 years old, I had never heard music in my room as pleasant to listen to.

Literally, 30 minutes later, my Odyssey's were up for sale and I have not regretted it one moment.

Not all tube amps are alike, and like solid state I think mono's (right down to the independent power supplies) are the best...but, most tube amps just sound better than solid state ones I' have found. Voltage regulation is important, too - otherwise tube amps can sound flaccid and too willowy.

My opinions above, of course. But, try it you may well love your music a bit better

John

SteveFord · « **Reply #3 on:** 3 Apr 2010, 01:13 am »

I held off on tube amps for decades and the better the rest of my systems became the more I realised that something wasn't quite right.
I got to thinking that any guitar amplifier worth owning is a tube amp SO I used my tax refund for a pair of VTL monoblocks and haven't looked back.
Aside from tuners and a DVD player, all of the solid state stuff is long gone.

R_burke · « **Reply #4 on:** 4 Apr 2010, 02:08 am »

I agree with everything said before me, the only thing I would add is that I found that I needed less tube power to push my speakers properly. I went from 200 per channel SS to 100 tube and then down to 20/40 manley mahi monoblocks and am very happy. My speakers are 91db efficient, the Lorelei are around 89 if memory serves me, so 30/50 should be fine. and the AVA is right in there.

chadh · « **Reply #5 on:** 4 Apr 2010, 03:39 am »

A (similar) alternative to the AVA amp:

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ampstube&1275438143&/Music-Reference-rm10-mk2-

I've got no connection to the seller. I just thought the price seemed pretty amazing.

Chad

satfrat · « **Reply #6 on:** 4 Apr 2010, 06:12 am »

As you well know, the Lorelei's are built for 150watts @ 8ohms. And the Stratos was built for system synergy with the Lorelei by Symphonic Line. You already have tube influence being injected by your VTL. Will you be happy with more tube warmth of a lesser powered tube amp instead of the dynamics of the 150watt SS Stratos? Guess that depends on your listening preferences, volume preferences, and what you're really looking for that you don't already have. There's really no way of knowing that til you start demo'ing some tube amps. Considering the 2 way shipping charges that you'll be paying, I wouldn't feel guilty in the least in doing this personally. Let's face it, it's really the only way you have to do business with these internet companies. It's not like you can go to a dealer and get a loaner. Plus you're the one who's paying full shipping costs for these demo's, not the internet business, so I wouldn't feel the least bit guilty while spending my money in order to do business with them. When i was searching for system power cords, I had 9 different cords here at the same time so I could fully compare them all. So I say demo to your hearts content, it's your buck that's paying for it.

Cheers,
Robin

jdodmead · « **Reply #7 on:** 4 Apr 2010, 12:17 pm »

I pulled the trigger on a pair of Rogue M120 Magnum mono's. I should make out ok, if they don't work out. I read a lot of good things about them and the only bad thing is that they generate a lot of heat. That's something I don't get from the Odyssey's.
Thanks
Jeff

SteveFord · « **Reply #8 on:** 4 Apr 2010, 12:40 pm »

Congratulations! Let us know what you think when they're up and going.

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #9 on:** 4 Apr 2010, 12:46 pm »

Quote from: jdodmead on 4 Apr 2010, 12:17 pm

...they generate a lot of heat.

Welcome to the world of tubes!

Seriously though, those are great sounding and reliable amps. Let us know your thoughts after you've had some time with them.

satfrat · « **Reply #10 on:** 4 Apr 2010, 04:54 pm »

Definitely come back to your thread here with your future thoughts,,, inquiring minds want to know. Hope you find your own personal nervona with your choice.

Now go cook some easter eggs on them amps.

Cheers,
Robin

bunky · « **Reply #11 on:** 4 Apr 2010, 06:08 pm »

When i had the Lorelei's besides my mono SE's i paired them with a Sonic Frontiers SFS 80 tube Amplifier which was my 1st tube power amp and then with a BAT VK60 tube power amp.In my opinion the Lorelei's are definately tube friendly and work as well with tube amps as they do with solid state amps. the AVA ultravalve or many other tube amps of moderate power rating should do well.good luck....WCW III

satfrat · « **Reply #12 on:** 4 Apr 2010, 07:12 pm »

Quote from: bunky on 4 Apr 2010, 06:08 pm

When i had the Lorelei's besides my mono SE's i paired them with a Sonic Frontiers SFS 80 tube Amplifier which was my 1st tube power amp and then with a BAT VK60 tube power amp.In my opinion the Lorelei's are definately tube friendly and work as well with tube amps as they do with solid state amps. the AVA ultravalve or many other tube amps of moderate power rating should do well.good luck....WCW III

Well I do have my 4 Lorelei's paired with 2 three channel Butler Audio tube hybrid amps so I half know of where you're coming from.

Cheers,
Robin

flintstone · « **Reply #13 on:** 4 Apr 2010, 08:43 pm »

I've been driving my Apogee Duetta Signatures with the Rogue 120 Magnums for a few years now, I like them a lot. I had a Krell Ksa-250 on the Apogee speakers for years before making the switch to tubes. The Rogues do run warm, but in my case...so did the big Krell.

doug s. · « **Reply #14 on:** 5 Apr 2010, 02:50 pm »

it would be hard to do better than this, at the price, and for your needs:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=76673.msg723392#msg723392

doug s.

satfrat · « **Reply #15 on:** 5 Apr 2010, 04:11 pm »

Quote from: doug s. on 5 Apr 2010, 02:50 pm

it would be hard to do better than this, at the price, and for your needs:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=76673.msg723392#msg723392

doug s.

Damn he's practically giving away that exPez owned amp.

Knowing Pez, Wayne Waanane of Bolder Cables has probably eyeballed that amp for whatever mods that was done to it(duh, just reread the thread ).

Yur right, I can't believe this 75 watt tube amp is still highlighting the for sales pages.

Cheers,
Robin

srb · « **Reply #16 on:** 5 Apr 2010, 04:21 pm »

Quote from: satfrat on 5 Apr 2010, 04:11 pm

Yur right, I can't believe this 75 watt tube amp is still highlighting the for sales pages.

Maybe if the Blu-Tak was replaced with a piece of precision die-cut damping material?

Steve

toobluvr · « **Reply #17 on:** 5 Apr 2010, 04:31 pm »

Quote from: jdodmead on 4 Apr 2010, 12:17 pm

I pulled the trigger on a pair of Rogue M120 Magnum mono's. I should make out ok, if they don't work out. I read a lot of good things about them and the only bad thing is that they generate a lot of heat. That's something I don't get from the Odyssey's.
Thanks
Jeff

To my ears, Rogue amps are not particularly "tooby" sounding, if you know what I mean. Dynamic and neutral, I find them a bit dry and leaning more to the SS camp. I listened to a pair of M-150 monos a fair bit in my buddy's system. He has since gone to a pair of PrimaLuna monoblocks in search of more tube flavor. He tells me mission accomplished, and he is much happier with the PL. The added bonus is he put 800 bux into his pocket on the change!

Good company though with great customer support.

Enjoy your new amps!

flintstone · « **Reply #18 on:** 5 Apr 2010, 05:17 pm »

Quote from: toobluvr on 5 Apr 2010, 04:31 pm

To my ears, Rogue amps are not particularly "tooby" sounding, if you know what I mean. Dynamic and neutral, I find them a bit dry and leaning more to the SS camp. I listened to a pair of M-150 monos a fair bit in my buddy's system. He has since gone to a pair of PrimaLuna monoblocks in search of more tube flavor. He tells me mission accomplished, and he is much happier with the PL. The added bonus is he put 800 bux into his pocket on the change!

Good company though with great customer support.

Enjoy your new amps!

Good point, the Rogue amps are not "tooby" sounding. However, when I was in the market for tube amps this is what won me over towards buying my Rogues. The "tooby" sounding amps did not fair well with my fullrange speakers...poor bass, and less than extended highs. I think you are better off buying amps that work well with your speakers, unless you want to buy speakers that work well with your amps? (and I would never replace my Apogee speakers...except with a bigger Apogee

)

I wanted a "tube amps with big bass balls" like the Krell I was replacing, and extended yet sweet HF reproduction....ie, I liked solid state just fine....except for the sandy sound in midrange reproduction.

I started with just a tube preamp for around a year, and then moved to tube amps...and now, tube DAC, tube preamp, tube amps.

My Apogee Duettas have never sounded better...great tone, great bass, great midrange and HF reproduction....and most important of all, very "musical"

Dave

jdodmead · « **Reply #19 on:** 6 Apr 2010, 12:00 am »

Frank contacted me and offered me an Ultravalve loaner for a couple of days so I can see how it would fit in my system. The Rogues should arrive on Friday, so I should have a good basis, for comparision.
I'll keep you posted, just don't be expecting a ton of audiospeak, I pretty much keep things short and sweet.
Thanks for your the input

Jeff