[ZenZoo]

Hello VSA Owners,

I hope to include myself in the VSA Family soon!
I recently had the opportunity to listen to a pair of JR's and really liked what I was tapping into there.  Now I'm looking to get a pair myself and looking for the best route to take.

I know there are a variety of options out there, but I'm struggling to find the best path on a limited budget.  It's about $7500 this year, but could always upgrade down the road.

I would ultimately like to have the VR5 Anniversaries... but will have to settle for what my budget can afford at this time!

Here are some of my options thus far:
- VR4SR MKI - like new condition and could afford the upgrade to MKII
- 2005 VR7 with all possible upgrades in 2005 like new condition
- Unifield 3's used, but good condition

I'm sure there are other opportunities out there I am unaware of.  I'd love to get any opinions of the ones listed above and look forward to any recommendations from current owners.

My listening area is a family room about 20x20 which opens up into the kitchen.
The front end is mainly McIntosh with the C2300 preamp and MC2102 amp at 2x100wpc tube.

Thanks for the help!!!

[JackD201]

VR-4 SR Mk1 perfect size for your room but 100wpc will have a tough time getting the most out of the bass modules.

Unifield 3 would be a perfect fit for the electronics but might not fill the room since it opens up to the kitchen.

The VR-7 HSE has the sensitivity to be driven well by your electronics and the scale to fill your room and the kitchen as well. Part for part is the closest to the modern VR-5 SE with the exception of the Scanspeak tweet. This tweet is still one of the best soft domes out there and can be found on competing speakers many times the price. I heard these tweets on the VR-4Jr Anniversary prototype at CES '08 and it's a sweetie alright. I'd say they're at least at par with the Vifa units of the SR Mk1 and Mk2. Too bad the economic meltdown kept the VR-4 Anniversaries from making it to the market place. That would have been a killer. I could've sold a lot of those. Sigh.

If I were in your shoes, I'd go for the 7s. If it's coming from Manny over in West Covena, LA County that also means it is company certified.

Go! Go! Go!

Can't wait to have you on board!!!

[ZenZoo]

What does HSE stand for?
Anyone listened to the older VR7's in the more traditional single box design?
I'm very interesed in this one and would like to learn more.

[hometheaterdoc]

What does HSE stand for?

Hovland Special Edition...  all caps and coils in crossover were done custom for VSA by Hovland...

[JackD201]

The HSE is the single cabinet aka the original VR-7. It is the one in your link. It stood for Hovland Special Edition. The later model with the dual stack is called the VR-7 SE.

CeeDee had caught this generation. We started around the time the transition was being made from Gen III to VR-4 SR and the introduction of the VR-1,2, and 4jr.

He's the man to ask in detail 

[jazzcourier]

I purchased the VR-7 single box design from the aforementioned Manny about 4 months or so ago.These speakers have some serious veneer damage and i was able to negotiate a great price therefore.Down the line i will strip the veneer and choose a new finish.That being said,these are incredible speakers that i just can't praise enough.The first thing i did was start taking down room treatments,especially in the center wall behind the rear tweeters.I noticed in Manny's beautiful showroom he had a glass framed print directly in the center wall behind his array of VS speakers,glass in the crucial sweet spot? Yikes i thought,this is an acoustical no no,but he said Albert said put it there.It sounded fabulous.I heard these speakers for a half hour and i knew i would own them.They are big and heavy and rule the room and you will get less image,more direct fabulous speaker sound.I am still finding the best place for them,but they sound so good everywhere i have been enjoying the journey of speaker placement.My room is 22 long 13 wide and the ceiling is 8 feet the speakers are about 7-8 feet apart about 2 feet from the sidewalls and about 5 feet from the back wall,the listening position is about 9-10 feet from the center of the speakers and the rear tweeter is positioned at about  1/2 or 50%.These speakers are toed-in about 20 degrees.Where they are eventually going to end up i am not sure....Anyone have any ideas given the dimensions of the room? This is a completely closed in room with 4 ASC sound panels on the center point of the ceiling halfway between the listening position and the speakers.Each upper corner is covered by Eighth Nerve triangles and the wall behind the speaker has two Realtrap mini trap's and in the center two Sound panels to cover the plaster wall.In the corners behind the speakers i have two ASC tube traps.The wooden doors that open into the room are covered by 4 sound panels.
     These older VR-7 speakers are simply amazing.I did hear them up against some of the newer VS models and they not only held their own but created their own magical musical environment unlike i had ever heard....Comments on setup? Is the magic in that center glass reflective object for real?

[ZenZoo]

JackD201 - Thanks for all the info thus far!

jazzcourier - very glad to hear that your VR7 experience is working out so well.  Can't wait to hear about them when you have the position and the room really dialed in... amazing, I'm sure!

I think I am starting to narrow down the search to either the older VR7 HSE's or the VR4 SR MKII (or 2.5... as they are a late model with additional tweaking before the III's came out)..

All help and opinions are still welcome and encouraged!

[varsharun]

Hi Zenzoo,

My first choice would be the Unifield 3, though it may be difficult to get it at your budget. I have it in a medium room that opens into the kitchen as well, and I have no difficulty filling it, at least at the volume levels I listen to. The transparency, soundstaging and imaging of this speaker is stunning.

I'd say go for the newly released VR-33 at under $4k. I'm sure folks who own it will give you all the details, but I think it is a speaker meant for larger rooms and perhaps louder listening levels. You can use to rest of your budget to maybe upgrade your electronics to suit this speaker better.

Welcome to the VSA club!

-Arun

JackD201 - Thanks for all the info thus far!

jazzcourier - very glad to hear that your VR7 experience is working out so well.  Can't wait to hear about them when you have the position and the room really dialed in... amazing, I'm sure!

I think I am starting to narrow down the search to either the older VR7 HSE's or the VR4 SR MKII (or 2.5... as they are a late model with additional tweaking before the III's came out)..

All help and opinions are still welcome and encouraged!

[ZenZoo]

Thanks Varsharun,
I've heard very good things about the Uni 3's and they still be an option.
I don't think I will go for the Vr33's because I'm really not into the look and style of them. I do know they are an exceptional value for the money. And there's probably nothing (new) in the same price range with the same audio quality. The parts list looks very nice.

As for electronics, I'm sticking with McIntosh and there's only 2 options I would consider down the road - that's adding a 2nd mc2102 for bi-amping or going with their mc2301's which will be out of the budget for a long time.

Decisions, decisions. At least I've narrowed it down to the VSA brand and the budget and aesthetics narrow it down further. 

[ceedee]

Hello ZenZoo,

Here is a picture of the VR 7 HSE you mention.

We still have this model as a collector's item.
We received the first HSE versions from VSA.
This model was top of the line for several years until the VR 11 came out.

The VR 7 HSE is still a very extra ordinairy speaker. This model will easily fill a  room at any size with music.



Is your size 20x20 in Feet or Meter?

Also the Unifield will do. The clarity will be a bit better. Your amp at 100 wpc is more than enough to drive the both.



Last week I was invited to join a opening of a showroom so I took the Unifiel III and made a nice setup in this large showroom filled with garden-illumination.
This room was realy huge ( 60x60x8 meter). Just 2x 35 wpc was enough to let the visitors believe there was real music playing. Also the Unifield line can make music in bigger situations.

[ZenZoo]

Hello CeeDee,

Those are great pictures!  I must say, I do envy you guys who have had the opportunity to experience the broad range of VSA Speakers!!!

CeeDee, since you have heard (and probably installed) most of the speakers I am considering... is it possible you could do a short comparison of the sound qualities of each or what I may expect in my room with the McIntosh Electronics.

These seem to be my primary choices:
* Unifield 3's
* VR7 HSE
* VR4 SR MKII (closer to a 2.5 as it's a later model)

Here's what I'm working with:



The room is approximately 20 feet x 20 feet with the kitchen to the left and a wall to the right with entry way and two windows that have heavy curtains on them.
I'm crunched for space and really can't spread out much further.  I can only go about 2 feet off the side wall (from the side of the cabinet) and 2 feet off the back wall (from the back of the speaker).

I don't listen to my music really loud and don't need earth shattering bass.  I'm looking from the most natural and realistic presentation possible - such that I can reach out and touch the singer when my eyes are closed.  Not too much to ask right.

Thanks again for all the help!

[McTwins]

Hi ZenZoo
If you are going to run bi-amp mode don't forget to use an active crossover. It is better to run fullrange in mono bridge mode with your MC2102.
McIntosh and VSA is a great combination.
Thanks   

[ceedee]

Hello ZenZoo,

Well this is really a nice challenge. You have a great room and also equipmet.
The open space to the kitchen alows very deep bass responce. A 32" of a churchorgan should fit.

We have compared the three systems you have in mind.

Your room is large enough for the VR 7 HSE and they probably will perform at best level in your situation. The $ 7.500,00 is a fair price for a 2005 HSE.

But if you are looking for the tears in your eyes I would opt for the Unifield III.
The bass is not as deep as the VR 7 HSE but you can combine the Unifield III with the new VSA Shockwave, a 12” sub with parametric crossover so you can tune it optimally into your room. The Shockwave can give the boost in subsonic so you can have the most subtle soundstage you are looking for. You will be emotionally shocked by the result of this combination. Remember that musical space is optimized when you have well tuned harmonics from very low up to very high. There is always a discussion about super-tweeters.
No one can hear up to 100 K-hz but, we notice the difference in space due to the very subtle short waves moving around in the room. They ‘lift' on, the also subtle, big waves of the subsonics. Only when the system is well tuned this will give you a very natural soundstage.
Albert’s knowledge of psychoacoustics makes it possible that his speakers can act so close to reality. Our brains do think the music is real. We easily can understand the emotional message the music is full of. The composer had a brainwave and wrote it down on paper, the musicians and the conducter understood what there is written and played the music full of energy and emotion.
There are technicians who know about recording and 'catch' the music. A very few producers know about mastering the recording into a Record or CD. We know about reproducing all of this so you can enjoy the original thoughts of the composer, who ever it may be.

Gavin (es347) should agree with this since he uses two subs along with his VR 5 SE Anniversary.

We have a client who wants to sell his VR 7 HSE and trade  for a set of Unifield III & a Shockwave.

It is a matter of price, budget and drive to want something very special.
As long as you don't know the difference between the Unifield III with or without the Shockwave , you don't miss it. You can save money for the Shockwave later.

Finally it is up to you ! We can only make it happen.

Good luck

[wimck]

Our brains do think the music is real

Agree ceedee!  Sometimes it's "scary" real!

[ZenZoo]

((there is also a 4th unlikely candidate - at the end of this post))

...it's the dog chasing his tale...
We have all either been there or seen customers who have.
Well, I feel like that now... chasing my tail in a circle that is.

I know all 3 would be great choices and I could live happily with any of them.
Thank you ceedee, I know it was a challenge, but you are always up to the task.  Nice job.  I do want a speaker that brings a tear to my eye when I listen to music conveyed as it was intended to be.  That's definitely top of the list and the Unifield 3 may be the choice.  Can't afford a sub at this time... I hope I wouldn't need one as I'm trying to get away from that as we speak.  I have found a demo pair in Piano Black.

I also like the upgrade opportunity of the VR4SR MKII's (or 2.5's... just before the III was released), that I could mod all the way up to the VR5 Anniversaries or higher one day.  I found one in Piano Black that's like new!

Then there is the VR7 HSE which was factory upgraded in 2005 with the best crossovers and drivers available at the time with additional cabinet dampening as well and I believe a thicker cabinet weighing it at almost 265 lbs each.  I don't know how I could set-up and move that beast around.  I believe it's finish is American Walnut in a light to medium tone.
Not sure how this would go with my decor as I have not seen pictures of this one yet.
Bus since it was best of the best in 2005, I'm sure the sound quality is still amazing.

And as I mentioned at the top of the post...
A 4th Option I would not rule out is... finding a VR4 SR 'Donor" Cabinet and having it upgraded at the factory.  This would actually be one of the top choices for me if I could actually find one as I could work with Albert to tailor a speaker to my desire and budget.  It would almost feel like a custom speaker, made just for me.  If you hear or know of any Donor Cabinets out there in decent condition, please let me know.

Although, I don't plan on waiting around for one.  I'd like to make my decision within the next week or two.

Thanks again to Gavin (via email), ceedee, McTwins, varsharun, jazzcourier, JackD201, hometheaterdoc and Scott (a fellow TX boy)!  You've all been great so far, I appreciate the help!

[ZenZoo]

Hi ZenZoo
If you are going to run bi-amp mode don't forget to use an active crossover. It is better to run fullrange in mono bridge mode with your MC2102.
McIntosh and VSA is a great combination.
Thanks

Thanks for the heads up! 
**Note to self:  remember this when you add a 2nd amp!

[es347]

Just buy the VR7HSEs and don't look back.  I have no doubt that the Unifield is a great speaker but fact of the matter is that Albert designed that speaker for the Asian market where the listening rooms are much smaller.  Your room (20x20) is going to like the VR7HSEs much, much better.  Now stop driving yourself crazy over this and pull the trigger.  Buy the VR7HSEs!  This will be my last post on the subject!

[ceedee]

You are very wright Gavin,

For this money the 2005 HSE is a great option.

Good luck ZenZoo.

[ZenZoo]

I just want Gavin's system and be done with it!!!

[es347]

It's all yours.  Just send me a check for the total msrp.