Virtue ONE.2/TWO.2 usability questions

Thruxton · « **on:** 21 Mar 2010, 12:06 am »

Greetings
Have one Virtue 2 Amp but want to bi Amp, so I need matching amps.

What are my options ? Can I mod my current amp and then buy a newer Virtue Classic to match ?

Sell my olde Virtue 2 and then buy 2 Virtue One.2 ?

If I have to sell , were can I sell the unit or buy another...

Any advice would be very helpful

Speakers MMG's and planning on going to a DYI DC or battery supply.

virtue · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 Apr 2010, 03:16 pm »

I have a customer who wants a bit more gain from his turn-table into Sensation. Can anyone suggest a phono pre-amp? Cheap and good is always appreciated.

PSB Guy · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 Apr 2010, 05:19 pm »

http://www.phonopreamps.com/

Some "cheap and cheerful" stuff there. I've heard good things about the Project Phono Box too, but it's a bit more expensive.

http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=phonobox&cat=boxes&lang=en

dba · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 Apr 2010, 08:19 pm »

Beaten to posting http://www.phonopreamps.com/ good, simple service from them and priced at a point where various options can be tested to find the most suitable IMO
[just be sure to get a good supply to them]

Delta Wave · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 Apr 2010, 08:47 pm »

Sorry, but those things are junk. You'd be better off finding a used NAD, Project, Cambridge Audio, Belari or Rotel. All can usually be had for under $150.
DB Systems makes an awesome phono pre for under $200. http://www.dbsystemsaudio.com/ Don't let their website full you, their stuff is top notch, just don't count on any fancy cases.

ChrisM · « **Reply #5 on:** 29 May 2010, 03:15 pm »

I have a Virtue Two i might be lookin to sell, if your interested.

dvenardos · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 May 2010, 03:06 am »

There is a Two for sale here:
http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2893
If you need to sell you can use the classifieds here at audio circle or audiogonhttp://audiogon.com is very popular.

Parkfly · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 May 2010, 08:18 pm »

Great idea to bi-amp!

What I am thinking of trying is using my Sensation amp to drive my Monitor Audio RS6 speakers.
Then I will connect my Sensation preamp outs to my ONE.2.
The ONE.2 will drive my bass speakers in my Cerwin Vega CLS-215's.

I will run both amps off the same battery supply. This should basically
put in parallel, the big bypass caps in both amps. What a huge reservoir
for good bass and dynamics.

The preamp outs in the Sensation seem perfect for use in bi-amping.
This is a great added bonus provided by the Sensation.

You could keep your Virtue 2 and use it with a Sensation for bi-amping.

Harold

cynan · « **Reply #8 on:** 1 Jun 2010, 09:09 pm »

Quote from: Parkfly on 30 May 2010, 08:18 pm

Great idea to bi-amp!

What I am thinking of trying is using my Sensation amp to drive my Monitor Audio RS6 speakers.
Then I will connect my Sensation preamp outs to my ONE.2.
The ONE.2 will drive my bass speakers in my Cerwin Vega CLS-215's.

I will run both amps off the same battery supply. This should basically
put in parallel, the big bypass caps in both amps. What a huge reservoir
for good bass and dynamics.

The preamp outs in the Sensation seem perfect for use in bi-amping.
This is a great added bonus provided by the Sensation.

You could keep your Virtue 2 and use it with a Sensation for bi-amping.

Harold

That does sound like an interesting proposition. If trying this, using the Sensation to drive the high range drivers, don't forget to try switching the jumper in the Sensation to activate the below 80hz cutoff. I think this will still divert the full range signal to the preamp outs while limiting the Sensation to 80Hz and up. This might require running the amp connected to the preamp outs "hotter" to make up for the reproduction of base frequencies, depending on the relative impedance and sensitivity of your low range vs high range drivers. It may, however, add a bit more detail to the upper frequencies...

While I don't generally favor bi-amped designs (as I think that a lot of what gives a speaker it's characteristic tone is the crossover design which is usually bypassed when bi-amping), if I actually had some bi-amp-able speakers I would give this a try.

srb · « **Reply #9 on:** 1 Jun 2010, 09:13 pm »

Quote from: cynan on 1 Jun 2010, 09:09 pm

While I don't generally favor bi-amped designs (as I think that a lot of what gives a speaker it's characteristic tone is the crossover design which is usually bypassed when bi-amping), if I actually had some bi-amp-able speakers I would give this a try.

I think both Thruxton and Parkfly are talking about passive bi-amping (without an electronic crossover), and therefore would be using the passive crossover in the speaker.

Steve

classicjt2 · « **Reply #10 on:** 2 Jun 2010, 07:45 pm »

Shameless plug:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=81982.0

James

Rclark · « **Reply #11 on:** 18 Jun 2010, 09:50 pm »

Came across this little tidbit on the TNT-Audio Virtue One review:

"With such promising results, I was keen to use the Virtue.ONE in my main system. But in the past, the phase issue that most class-T amplifiers seem to exhibit (only when used in a multi-amped system) had meant that they did not match well with the class AB amp driving the augmenting woofers in the Hawthorne Audio Duets. So for this audition, I dragged out the Autocostruire MC4X100 class-T amplifier and with the outputs paralleled, used it to power the woofers. And this worked well, the MC4x100 was clearly up to the duties handed to it below 60 hz."

What the heck? Is this the real reason nobody is running subs? I need a T-amp powered sub or I'm going to have phase issues? Huh?

Another couple what-the-hecks: What the heck is that image of a Virtue 3 with heatsinks on both sides, laid on its side? And the image of Virtue USB cable. New stuff imminent?

virtue · « **Reply #12 on:** 18 Jun 2010, 10:53 pm »

Reeza,
We have a buffered mono subwoofer pre-out. Use a powered sub without fear or problems. Also, there are no phase issues with this amp.
Enjoy.
Seth

virtue · « **Reply #13 on:** 18 Jun 2010, 10:55 pm »

Here's where we'll put usability questions and answers.

virtue · « **Reply #14 on:** 18 Jun 2010, 11:00 pm »

BTW, the picture of the Virtue THREE (heatsinks on the side)... not imminent. We trashed everything started in 2009 and after so many reversals and screw ups, have "gone corporate" with new product announcements. No more pre-announcements, period.

Rclark · « **Reply #15 on:** 19 Jun 2010, 10:00 am »

It's just one e, but whatever.

What if I don't want to use the buffered subwoofer out on the amp, but wire instead from the receiver to the subs? Will I have phase issues then?

This is not entirely make or break for me, but I need to know of possible wiring or performance limitations. If I must use the Sensation in a certain way then I need to find out how my other chosen components my be limited.

Sorry, first bigger system, and I want to make sure I'm making well informed decisions.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 Jun 2010, 11:14 am »

Quote from: Rclark on 19 Jun 2010, 10:00 am

If I must use the Sensation in a certain way then I need to find out how my other chosen components my be limited.

The best sound I have found is to use the buffered out of the Sensation, move the jumper over to the 80hz filter while using a powered subwoofer. One will do fine. I love the reaction to people that have snubbed the single sub. On some songs, the bass licks are recorded to go back and forth between the speakers, and the single sub plays that accurately. Even I am amazed.

The 80hz filter takes the bass load off of the Senstion allowing quiye a bit improvement in imaging and detail, more than you will ever expect. I am curremtly using a small 80 watt powered 8" floor loaded sub by Morsaunt Short and getting great bass, people at the LSAF were amazed. On Ebay last week, I saw Infinity selling a bunch of refurb 300 watt powered dual 10 inch subs running about $150 to $175, depenging on the bidding. I bought one for $170, I will try and get this hooked up this weekend and give a report back. I needed another sub so I can place the MS sub back into my surround systen.

Nuuk · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 Jun 2010, 09:59 pm »

Quote from: Rclark on 19 Jun 2010, 10:00 am

It's just one e, but whatever.

What if I don't want to use the buffered subwoofer out on the amp, but wire instead from the receiver to the subs? Will I have phase issues then?

This is not entirely make or break for me, but I need to know of possible wiring or performance limitations. If I must use the Sensation in a certain way then I need to find out how my other chosen components my be limited.

Sorry, first bigger system, and I want to make sure I'm making well informed decisions.

You will have the phase issues that I spoke about if you use a class A or class AB (analogue) amplifier for the subs. There are no (specific) phase "problems" with the Virtue amps, or the other class-T amps on the market. However, it is a fact that with class-T amps the phase changes with frequency, and it doesn't with 'analogue' amplifiers. Therefore, where the two overlap, there will be a phase issue and it won't sound right (whether you use the output from the Virtue amp, or the output from your receiver). Fortunately there are many (if not a majority) of subwoofer amps that are class-D (because they are more efficient) and they will match with a class-T amp.

It does take a bit more thought to get a more complicated system optimised!

Nuuk · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 Jun 2010, 10:03 pm »

Quote from: Parkfly on 30 May 2010, 08:18 pm

I will run both amps off the same battery supply. This should basically
put in parallel, the big bypass caps in both amps. What a huge reservoir
for good bass and dynamics.

Does it?

I think (hope) that the battery will be much larger reservoir than the caps anyway!

Rclark · « **Reply #19 on:** 20 Jun 2010, 05:16 am »

Quote from: Nuuk on 19 Jun 2010, 09:59 pm

You will have the phase issues that I spoke about if you use a class A or class AB (analogue) amplifier for the subs. There are no (specific) phase "problems" with the Virtue amps, or the other class-T amps on the market. However, it is a fact that with class-T amps the phase changes with frequency, and it doesn't with 'analogue' amplifiers. Therefore, where the two overlap, there will be a phase issue and it won't sound right (whether you use the output from the Virtue amp, or the output from your receiver). Fortunately there are many (if not a majority) of subwoofer amps that are class-D (because they are more efficient) and they will match with a class-T amp.

It does take a bit more thought to get a more complicated system optimised!

Oh you wrote that? Nice review. And thank you for that answer, feeling confident again about my upcoming purchase.