[cujobob]

He was associating with people who were drinking, if he wasn't himself.

[macrojack]

Cujobob - You're sounding like Carrie Nation. Adults can and should drink responsibly. If they fail to do so, problems usually arise. But the drinker has to take responsibility for his/her own inebriation and pursuant behaviors. It's the law.

[cujobob]

The law at one point was also such that you couldn't drink...period.

Why should adults drink?  it's bad for them, it creates a ton of problems and little benefit.  It seems rather un-wise.

[S Clark]

The law at one point was also such that you couldn't drink...period.

Why should adults drink?  it's bad for them, it creates a ton of problems and little benefit.  It seems rather un-wise.

Simply because I want to.  I am having an afternoon glass of white wine while listening to my new copy of Tchaichovsky's 6th Sym. as I type.  I enjoy it, and it enhances the quality of my life. 

And where the hell do you get this crap that a glass of wine is bad for you?

[cujobob]

I think Plaxico had the exact same thing in mind.  I hear that's his favorite Tchaichovsky

[PhilNYC]

He was associating with people who were drinking, if he wasn't himself.

And this makes the incident alcohol-related?  The guy had a gun in his pants, and it went off when he was shifting it around thru his pants.  That could have happened in his car.  Alcohol, or associating with people who were drinking, had nothing to do with it.  And fwiw, the people he was associating with hadn't been drinking either...they had just arrived at the club and walked thru the entranceway...none of them had yet ordered a drink...

[Bigfish]

I am a diehard Steeler Fan and I believe Big Ben has played his last football as a Steeler.  No question he has made bad decisions and acted inappropriately.  I in no way condone what occurred in Georgia but as I have thought about the reports I wonder why the bar is not in trouble for serving alcohol to minors?  Why was she in the bar and why were they serving her?  Ben was wrong and deserves the punishment but there seems to be a little railroading going on. 

I believe the Steelers are right in putting him on the trading block.  He won't have to win back fans if he goes to a new team but the new team will have to be very concerned that he stays clean.  The next time will be a year suspension! 

If Ben is not traded by the end of the first round tomorrow night he will be back as a Steeler.  I think this would be bad as everyone will be thinking Ben will be back after 4 to 6 games.  If his replacement (Dixon) is doing the job then I would be in favor of keeping Ben on the bench.

Ken

[Jimna]

its like the national enquirer in here with all the speculation.

ben deserves a suspension, im glad the NFL is making a statement.  the steelers will still be a threat this yr, dont underestimate them as an organization.   this was a team that won a superbowl despite a poor performance by a young quarterback.

[sts9fan]

What he did was wrong.
But she was there so you know.
But what he did was wrong.
But they did serve her ya know.

He is being suspended for being a dumbass.

[doug s.]

The law at one point was also such that you couldn't drink...period.

Why should adults drink?  it's bad for them, it creates a ton of problems and little benefit.  It seems rather un-wise.

didja notice that a constitutional amendment had to be passed to make alcohol illegal, and then another one passed to repeal it?  seems to me that all current recreational drug laws are presently unconstitutional w/o said constitutional amendment - it's part of man's right to life/liberty/pursuit of happiness...  the most dangerous thing about all illegal drugs is the fact that they're illegal.  some folks can do drugs responsibly, others not - no different than alcohol.  they should be regulated the same way.  i don't like the hypocrisy of it all.  and, besides trying to teach responsible behaviour to our youngin's, we should also not be teaching them hypocrisy.

ben should not be punished for drinking or for using any drugs, for that matter.  he should be punished for not acting appropriately, intoxicated or not.

doug s., this is not a political thread. 

[macrojack]

During the 1960s I tried marijuana and found I liked it. I also found that the warnings about the dangers attendant to its use were untrue. This led to an assumption that the warnings about other drugs might not be true either. This led to experimentation with other drugs. This led to a perforated septum. This led to disgust with the media and its misrepresentation of facts on behalf of the power elite. From this position I developed an uncanny ability to read between the lines and ignore the noise that pervades our mass media.

Never had any trouble with drug use but did amass a total of 4 driving while impaired convictions caused by indiscreet alcohol consumption.

I agree with DougS that the greatest danger involved in the use of illegal drugs comes from the fact that they are illegal. Persecution and prosecution of recreational drug users has done far more social damage than the drugs themselves ever could. Add to that all the crime caused by forcing drug consumption underground and all the tax money wasted by incarceration of people who were caught growing 3 pot plants in their basement. It is stupid and unjustifiable but we Americans are too damn dumb to know we're being hosed by a media whose real mission is to shape public opinion.
Toyota is being trashed more than Enron or Bernie Madoff. Look at the damage caused by these different entities and tell me what was worse.
Big Ben is guilty of being a dumbass as stated above. He is apparently Jethro Bodine come back to play football, a hick with stars in his eyes and a belief in his entitlement as a prince of the enefel. Without Troy Polamalu, his won/loss record would be about half of what it is.

[ctviggen]

Toyota is being trashed more than Enron or Bernie Madoff. Look at the damage caused by these different entities and tell me what was worse.

Toyota.  At least Madoff and Enron never killed or had the potential to kill anyone.  Plus, what does this have to do with doing drugs and the ideas against drugs? 

[Bigfish]

To get this thread back on track or at least attempt to get it back on track!

I was truely surprised that the Raiders did not step up to the plate and make the trade for Big Ben last night.  Maybe, the Steelers were asking too much and really want to determine if they can help him change his - lets say out of football lifestyle.  This will be interesting to watch as Ben has to take actions to even be allowed to participate in Training Camp. 

Ken

[lcrim]

Goodell included an intensive psychological exam to determine what treatment the guy gets.  The league is punishing him and his team but they didn't just suspend him.  My point is that what happened has a large substance abuse component attached and there is a recognition of that.  Hopefully, this is not mere lipservice and Rothlisberger receives the help he seems to need. 

Perhaps Plaxico is just a knucklehead who made a bad choice but the other pro athletes discussed here are further examples of what can happen when a substance impairs the ability to make good choices.  It serves no purpose to demonize the substance.  Those thus afflicted can be helped.

The guy sitting down to listen to some music w/ a glass of whatever is not in the same place as a crazed, inebriated animal that attacks young women in toilets.  The fact that he hired an entourage to look out for him is a weird, twisted recognition that he has a problem. 
I think that this particular Commisioner handled this in a responsible and thoughtful manner.

[doug s.]

To get this thread back on track or at least attempt to get it back on track!

I was truely surprised that the Raiders did not step up to the plate and make the trade for Big Ben last night.  Maybe, the Steelers were asking too much and really want to determine if they can help him change his - lets say out of football lifestyle.  This will be interesting to watch as Ben has to take actions to even be allowed to participate in Training Camp. 

Ken

why would the raiders or anyone want ben, even if he was cheap?   

doug s.

[fredgarvin]

To get this thread back on track or at least attempt to get it back on track!

I was truely surprised that the Raiders did not step up to the plate and make the trade for Big Ben last night.  Maybe, the Steelers were asking too much and really want to determine if they can help him change his - lets say out of football lifestyle.  This will be interesting to watch as Ben has to take actions to even be allowed to participate in Training Camp. 

Ken

I'm sure they would have loved to get Ben, but they got Campbell for a 5th round pick. I'm not sure Campbell is enough of an upgrade, though.

[Bigfish]

why would the raiders or anyone want ben, even if he was cheap?   

doug s.

I am glad the Steelers did not really want to get rid of him.  I will keep a two time Superbowl Champion and hope he can get his act together.  A top 5 quarterback in the NFL does not happen all to often!  Again, I am not discounting his stupidity and I hope he can stay away from alcohol.

Ken

[Bigfish]

I'm sure they would have loved to get Ben, but they got Campbell for a 5th round pick. I'm not sure Campbell is enough of an upgrade, though.

I may be one of the few NFL Fans to believe that Jason Campbell is a good quarterback but that is okay.  The kid has had a stream of offensive coodinators ever since he turned pro and he has had no offensive line at Washington.  He is certainly better that the former LSU quarterback (Russel) that is not just a bust but is an embarrsement as a number 1 pick.

Ken

[hmen]

If it's possible, Campbell just ended up in an even more unstable situation.

[PhilNYC]

Toyota.  At least Madoff and Enron never killed or had the potential to kill anyone.  Plus, what does this have to do with doing drugs and the ideas against drugs?

I seem to remember suicides associated with both Enron and Madoff's scheme.