In your opinion which is more important: the room or the speakers?

mjosef · « **Reply #40 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 04:54 am »

If I was homeless, I woulda' hadda' boomboxa'...chugga luckka.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #41 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 05:02 am »

Quote from: mjosef on 12 Mar 2010, 04:54 am

If I was homeless, I woulda' hadda' boomboxa'...chugga luckka.

He's happy....he just added room treatments...

Nuance · « **Reply #42 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 05:11 am »

Quote from: lonewolfny42 on 12 Mar 2010, 05:02 am

He's happy....he just added room treatments...

lmao!

cujobob · « **Reply #43 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 05:33 am »

Speakers, the room can be dealt with in most cases...though it would depend on which speakers and which room.

If a person doesn't know how to properly treat their room, set up multiple subs, and select speakers...a better room may be the better option.

Nuance · « **Reply #44 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 06:03 pm »

It's funny how the thread went from being dominated by the room votes to dominated by speakers votes.

For many of the reasons already mentioned, I think the speakers are the most important aspect of achieving great sound. In short, if you start with a pair of speakers that are extremely pleasing to you as far as measurements and sound go, you're on the best possible track. You can fix a room, but not speakers.

The monkey wrench is the whole discussion is this: how do you know the speakers you auditioned will remain pleasing when placed in your room? After all, your room isn't the exact same as the showroom. Or, if you auditioned them in your own room but it wasn't yet treated, how do you know that once you've treated your room you'll still like the sound of the speakers? And finally, if your room was already treated, doesn't that prove the room is more important?

Thoughts anyone?

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #45 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 06:51 pm »

Yes, when auditioning the speakers if possible listen at the highest levels you can imagine wanting to listen in a room of a size similar to or larger than the one you intend to use to ensure you can live with the distortion levels.You should not have to move off axis before the tweeter becomes bearable.

Then try also to listen in the nearfield (less than 6'), so what you are hearing of the room is minimized.

Move around the speakers while they are playing and pay attention to changes in the tonality. Crouch and stand and listen for same. Go around back if you can, and also listen from outside the room to get an idea of what in total the speaker is putting into the room. The less realistic the sound outside the usual listening window (±20º vertically and maybe ±45º horizontally), the less realistic the overall presentation in the room, regardless of the room's characteristics.

eclein · « **Reply #46 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 07:01 pm »

If say, your band sets up and outputs the sound (they're music) thru speakers...say in a gigantic Ice Hockey Rink. It will sound like a gigantic Ice Hockey Rink even if you upgrade your speakers, you still have to deal with room acoustics. Granted we aren't listening in that environment in a typical home audio/home theater set up. If you take your most favorite sounding speaker and move it to any other room than the one you enjoy them most in, your sound will change....and the first thing your looking to do to enhance the new sound is tweak the room to get it sounding like your original room and setup where they sounded best. I still vote room.

You can always and easily tweak the room but you can't easily tweak the speakers.

rollo · « **Reply #47 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 07:57 pm »

The Room. why are so many assuming that a lousy speaker will be part of the equation ? Now actually both scenarios are fine. Meaning if you own the speakers you like then design the room acoustics around the speaker.
If you have nothing and can do the room do it first. Saying that if it were me I would hire a Acoustic Engineer and provide him with the speaker plots and design the room for those speakers. Best of both worlds.
BTW when auditioning ANY speaker bring along your gear. If the dealer is not willing to hook up your gear , find another dealer.

charles

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #48 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 08:08 pm »

Quote from: rollo on 12 Mar 2010, 07:57 pm

... if it were me I would hire a Acoustic Engineer and provide him with the speaker plots and design the room for those speakers. Best of both worlds.

charles

Hmmm. I would make sure to listen to other rooms the Engineer designed before committing to that scenario!

When some of the top Acoustic Engineers in the country have trouble with multi-million dollar projects, such as the Avery Fisher Hall, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avery_Fisher_Hall my faith in that science is shaken.

I think there is a measure of art as well as science in the design both of rooms and speakers.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #49 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 08:21 pm »

my reply is not showing, for some reason. I have tried 5 times.

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #50 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 08:26 pm »

for the record, this is my reply and what I am seeing on my screen. Maybe a screen capture will register as content!

rajacat · « **Reply #51 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 08:41 pm »

What's more important...the chicken or the egg.

?

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #52 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 08:45 pm »

Quote from: rajacat on 12 Mar 2010, 08:41 pm

What's more important...the chicken or the egg. ?

Love and marriage, love and marriage
Go together like a horse and carriage
This I tell you brother
You can't have one without the other....

DSD_Mastering · « **Reply #53 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 09:06 pm »

People don't like to spend money on the room because it's not sexy like speakers are. We have a purpost built room and have experimented with crappy speakers in here and it still sounds good.

Regards,

*Scotty* · « **Reply #54 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 11:02 pm »

Something to think about, your room no matter how it is treated cannot lower the THD and IM inherent in the design and drivers used in your loudspeaker, only a better speaker design with superior drivers can achieve this goal. There is a big gap between sounding good and state of the art Hi-Fidelity reproduction. My vote goes to the loudspeakers first ,then room treatment.
Scotty

Nuance · « **Reply #55 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 11:22 pm »

Quote from: *Scotty* on 12 Mar 2010, 11:02 pm

Something to think about, your room no matter how it is treated cannot lower the THD and IM inherent in the design and drivers used in your loudspeaker only only a better speaker design with superior drivers can achieve this goal. There is a big gap between sounding good and state of the art Hi-Fidelity reproduction. My vote goes to the loudspeakers first ,then room treatment.
Scotty

Well said sir.

pjg66 · « **Reply #56 on:** 13 Mar 2010, 01:39 am »

My vote goes with speakers first. Maybe it's because in my own experience I've always managed to place speakers in the rooms I was stuck with (never had the luxury of a dedicated listening room) in a way that resulted in very satisfactory sound without the use of fancy room treatments (other than the usual use of carpets, draperies, etc.).

In my latest (and probably last) home I've been extremely lucky to place my rig in a combined living/dining room and have it work wonderfully without any special room treatments. Of course it is set up for nearfield listening, which probably helps. BTW, this has made me an avid fan of nearfield listening. There really is something to getting the room out of the equation as much as possible, and nearfield seems to go a long way in doing it without expensive room treatments.

It's good to hear what others have to say about this topic. Speaker/room interaction is finally getting the attention it deserves.

Happy listening.
Paul G.

Nuance · « **Reply #57 on:** 13 Mar 2010, 02:38 am »

I think near-field listening is fine, but doing such with certain designs would cause issues such as lobing and comb filtering, no?

JoshK · « **Reply #58 on:** 13 Mar 2010, 03:06 am »

Speakers are the most important. Room is probably next, before amps, sources, etc. And certainly well ahead of power cords and things like that.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #59 on:** 13 Mar 2010, 03:10 am »

Unfortunatly, the room is by far the most important. If I was building a dedicated room for my system, I would build the listening room about 20x20 with a 30 foot high ceiling of glass windows and the floor of stone. I put together a lot of systems back in the 80's and that was by far one of the best I ever heard. Not the best, the better one was in a million dollar home.

In that 20x20 room, the system was backed next to a solid wall with a very wide doorway going into another room. The owner had some fairly large 3-way dynamic speakers called Goetz and a Revox receiver. It was highly reflective surface everywhere. The imaging and soundstage was top-notch, no signs of hardness. I have heard several $100,000+ systems that was not near as good because of the room they were in. That room was probably $95,000 to build and the owner had $5000 into his system. I was shocked to day the least.

People tend to over-damp their room. Carnegie Hall with high reflective surfaces everywhere sounds much better than the Avery Fisher Hall that was way over-damped and over designed.