Apple Airport express/apple tv

sugbob21 · « **on:** 11 Mar 2010, 04:34 pm »

are any or both of these items able to be hooked up to my Isabella DAC. I have athe usb port on the dac.

srb · « **Reply #1 on:** 11 Mar 2010, 04:43 pm »

Yes. The Apple TV has a standard Toslink optical digital audio output and the AirPort Express has a Mini-Toslink optical digital audio output shared coaxially with the headphone jack.

The USB port on the Airport Express is only used for attaching a USB Printer or a USB Keyspan Remote, etc. The USB port on the Apple TV is only used for service and diagnostics.

Steve

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #2 on:** 11 Mar 2010, 04:57 pm »

Quote from: sugbob21 on 11 Mar 2010, 04:34 pm

are any or both of these items able to be hooked up to my Isabella DAC. I have athe usb port on the dac.

Hi sugbob21,

Steve is correct - I believe both those products offer a mini-toslink digital output. So you just need to use a mini-Toslink to Toslink optical cable and you can connect to your Isabellina dac. Should work fine, as I have a few customers who are doing this...

EDIT: Looks like the Apple TV uses standard Toslink (thanks, Steve!), but the Airport Express outputs via mini-toslink.

Best regards,

Vinnie

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #3 on:** 11 Mar 2010, 05:10 pm »

Any problems with the high jitter from the Apple TV, Vinnie? Does your DAC re-clock? If not is anyone using an affordable re-clocker like a Monarchy DIP or Theta TLC with your DAC that you know of?

srb · « **Reply #4 on:** 11 Mar 2010, 05:15 pm »

The Mini-Toslink jack on the AirPort Express is a smaller optical connector than the standard Toslink, and is shared coaxially with the analog 1/8"/3.5mm headphone jack.

Although a standard Toslink cable will work with a Mini-Toslink to Toslink adapter, I prefer to not use an adapter (with any cables) if possible, and use a Mini-Toslink to Toslink cable as Vinnie recommends.

Steve

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 Mar 2010, 05:20 pm »

While on the subject of Toslink, any particular one you and/or your customers have had good results with?

I'm going to take a drive to your new place this summer, Vinnie. A 90 minute drive isn't too far to audition what seems like a great DAC.

sugbob21 · « **Reply #6 on:** 11 Mar 2010, 05:28 pm »

I love the DAC. Have mine with the headphone ampand usb. Using my macbook occasionally and now want to use an airport express or tv with my Mac Mini which is in another room. i believe all i have to do is plug the airport into an electrical socket and use the mini toslink to toslink Vinnie mentioned above and hopefully i have music thru itunes.

srb · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 Mar 2010, 06:08 pm »

Quote from: sugbob21 on 11 Mar 2010, 05:28 pm

i believe all i have to do is plug the airport into an electrical socket and use the mini toslink to toslink Vinnie mentioned above and hopefully i have music thru itunes.

If you are using Apple TV, the Apple TV (through your connected TV) will take you through the setup process.

If you are using AirPort Express, you will need to install the Apple AirPort Utility program, which will detect the AirPort Express and take you through the setup process. http://support.apple.com/downloads/AirPort_Utility_5_4_2_for_Mac

After setup you will need to go into iTunes, then under Edit > Preferences > Devices tab, check Look for Remote Speakers connected with AirTunes.

Steve

sugbob21 · « **Reply #8 on:** 11 Mar 2010, 06:44 pm »

Thanks for that. i am kind of just doing this on the fly. Sort of learning as i go.
think i am going the airport express route at the moment.

sugbob21 · « **Reply #9 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 12:48 am »

can i connect Airport Express to my line conditioner /power bar or does it have to be connected directly to a wall outlet. is there going to be the potential for interference or noise ?

srb · « **Reply #10 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 01:38 am »

The AirPort Express does not have to be directly plugged into a wall outlet. You can plug it into a power conditioner, either directly or with an extension cord.

I have two of mine plugged into power strips and the third into a 6" extension cord, then into a wall outlet. Apple sells a connection kit which contains a power extension cord that replaces the snap-on folding wall outlet connector, but it isn't necessary.

I haven't experienced any interference or noise problems, and I am using the analog outputs versus the Toslink, but some users have reported wireless dropouts depending on the location and orientation of the unit.

Steve

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #11 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 01:52 pm »

Quote from: Stu Pitt on 11 Mar 2010, 05:10 pm

Any problems with the high jitter from the Apple TV, Vinnie? Does your DAC re-clock? If not is anyone using an affordable re-clocker like a Monarchy DIP or Theta TLC with your DAC that you know of?

Hi Stu,

I don't see any problems with jitter using the Apple TV or AirPort Express with the Isabellina dac. I have a few customers using these and are quite pleased with the results.

Isabellina does not do re-clocking, and I don't see any need to use a Monarchy or "de-jitter" product with our dac. You can try, but I think you'll find that you'll get excellent results without it, and this will reduce components and complexity.

The Wadia iTransport is supposed to have high jitter, but when you plug it into an Isabellina, it sings! I've shown this off as some headfi shows (with iPods plugged in using lossless files) and I think the only people who were thinking about "the jitters" were the ones who had too much coffee - but that is a different jitter!

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Although a standard Toslink cable will work with a Mini-Toslink to Toslink adapter, I prefer to not use an adapter (with any cables) if possible, and use a Mini-Toslink to Toslink cable as Vinnie recommends.

Yes, I agree that it is ideal to not have to use a Toslink to mini-toslink adapter if you don't have to. There are optical cables that are already make with Toslink on one end, and mini-Toslink on the other end (so no adapter is needed).

Quote

While on the subject of Toslink, any particular one you and/or your customers have had good results with?

I'm going to take a drive to your new place this summer, Vinnie. A 90 minute drive isn't too far to audition what seems like a great DAC.

Hi Stu,

Great - I'd love to have you over for a listen!

As for as cables, this one on the cheap sounds good and is well-made:
http://www.ramelectronics.net/audio-video/audio-cables/digital-audio-optical-toslink-cable//prodPOFT3MR.html

But the glass fiber cables are supposed to sound the best. For example:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=184-172&AID=1457538&PID=3640530&SID=skim475X763

and:

http://www.parts-express.com//pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=180-951

Not sure if they offer it in a mini-Toslink to Toslink version. I'm sure if you search around, there's got to be someone offering this....

If anyone has experience with some real high-end Toslink cables they have tried, please chime in here and let us know your experience.

Quote

I haven't experienced any interference or noise problems,

The good thing is that using the Toslink isolates the digital feed to the Isabellina via light, so there is no electrical noise fed to the dac - so it stays clean and off-the-grid.

Keep us posted, Sugbob21!

Vinnie

sugbob21 · « **Reply #12 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 02:16 pm »

thank you Vinnie and everyone for the wealth of info. will keep posted . Hopefully get the airport in the next week or two. Not too ecectronically inclined as you can read so undoubtedly will have more questions as i go.
thanks again.
Bob

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #13 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 02:18 pm »

Quote from: sugbob21 on 12 Mar 2010, 02:16 pm

Not too ecectronically inclined as you can read so undoubtedly will have more questions as i go.
thanks again.
Bob

Not a problem, Bob - this is what we are here for. To help and learn from each other, and enjoy this great hobby!

I also want to thank everyone who has chimed-in to help

Best regards,

Vinnie

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #14 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 03:29 pm »

Thanks Vinnie for all the info. Much appreciated. I've got a few DACs in mind, but your's is at the top of my list. I'll definitely make it a point to come hear it, probably this summer as my work schedule is pretty light around that time of year.

The Toslink out on the Apple TV is a normal sized connection, not a mini.

Bob -

If you're considering the Airport express, take a good look at the Apple TV. It offers a few advantages due to its built in hard drive -
Once everything is synched, you don't have to worry about wireless drop outs from interference from your cordless phone, microwave, etc. It also won't each up wireless band width if that's a concern.

Your computer doesn't have to be running to use it. Its basically a self contained computer/music server itself.

If you don't have a TV in the room or don't want one, you can use an iPod Touch or iPhone as a remote. That may also apply to the Airport Express setup some how though.

Some people criticize the hard drive's lack of space. My 160 GB model has about 300 or so full CDs stored on it using Apple Lossless and isn't even half full yet.

The Apple TV has an internet tuner and a You Tube application built in. I've spent a lot of time watching some live music and other videos. Picture and sound quality obviously varies, but its all about the music, isn't it? I found some great live Pearl Jam acoustic performances at a local (now closed) Tower Records from back when they weren't known. BB King live stuff from decades ago, Black Sabbath live in Paris in 1970, and on and on. So much great stuff. And its a lot more fun watching it on my TV and listening through it on my main rig.

I really like my Apple TV. It made everything very simple. Even though the current set up is a slight step backward sonically (due to my current DAC) from my CD player - Rega Apollo - its convenience has made my Apollo pretty much obsolete.

If you have an Apple store nearby, they should have one on display that you can play with. Its the best $229 I've spent in a long time.

sugbob21 · « **Reply #15 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 04:21 pm »

Yes u can use ipod touch or iphone as a remote for either. Can you also stream music from say Rhapsody or Pandora on the airport tv or express ?

Stu Pitt · « **Reply #16 on:** 12 Mar 2010, 04:37 pm »

I don't think you can do Pandora, Rhapsody, etc in the Apple TV. I'm pretty sure there are some hacks out there for it, but I don't get into that stuff.

No idea when it comes to the Airport express.

purplesaber · « **Reply #17 on:** 14 Mar 2010, 08:27 am »

Quote from: Stu Pitt on 12 Mar 2010, 04:37 pm

I don't think you can do Pandora, Rhapsody, etc in the Apple TV. I'm pretty sure there are some hacks out there for it, but I don't get into that stuff.

No idea when it comes to the Airport express.

If you have a program called Airfoil on your computer you can stream any audio from any program on your computer to either the Airport or an Apple TV. I do that all the time with Pandora. Your computer has to be on but it works flawlessly -- Airfoil is a great product.

I believe you can hack the Apple TV to run Boxee (free media server app) and Boxee is able to run Pandora directly on the Apple TV. I haven't hacked my Apple TV so I haven't tried it myself. This would also require a monitor or TV with the aTV otherwise you wouldn't be able to navigate through Boxee.

Earman · « **Reply #18 on:** 15 Mar 2010, 06:41 pm »

Quote from: Vinnie R. on 12 Mar 2010, 01:52 pm

But the glass fiber cables are supposed to sound the best. For example:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=184-172&AID=1457538&PID=3640530&SID=skim475X763

and:

http://www.parts-express.com//pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=180-951

I've had excellent luck using the inexpensive SonicWave glass Toslink cables, as in Vinnie's first link. I've got three of those in systems around the house.

However, I have heard of DAC users having difficulties with the Dayton branded glass cables, as in Vinnie's second link, because of the round connector fitting loosely into Toslink ports. It's generally a bad idea to put a round plug into a square (sort of) hole.

srb · « **Reply #19 on:** 15 Mar 2010, 06:55 pm »

Quote from: Earman on 15 Mar 2010, 06:41 pm

However, I have heard of DAC users having difficulties with the Dayton branded glass cables, as in Vinnie's second link, because of the round connector fitting loosely into Toslink ports. It's generally a bad idea to put a round plug into a square (sort of) hole.

That's unusual. It's the first Toslink plug I have ever seen that did not have the standard Toslink plug shape, square with one rounded side. Wonder what they were thinking?

Steve