[vintagebob]

This thread is about setting up the Salk HT2-TL speakers (currently in a 2.0 configuration).

The basic goal is to get good:
Bass response
Imaging
Soundstage
Vocal clarity

The room:

http://www.floorplanner.com/projects/18596511-ht/floors/18629668-ground-floor/designs/19924703-ht



In my case, I was setting up an HT system at the same time which led to some compromises that I’ll talk about later.

The first place to start is with the instructions that are sent with the speakers.  They generally say to separate your speakers about 6-8 ft and leave at least 24” between the rear of the speaker and the front wall. (help me with this guys, I don’t have the sheet in front of me and I’m going by memory).  That leaves a lot of room for experimenting.  ; )

The next place I ended up was the idea of using the Cardas method/formula.

http://www.cardas.com/content.php?area=insights&content_id=26&pagestring

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=73815.0

For my room which is 13.75’ by 25’ that would put me at 45.5” (center of speaker) from the side walls and 73.8” from the front wall.  Each speaker (center of speaker) should then be 73.8” away from the listening position to form a golden triangle.  Boy, those speakers sure look close!

Here is the rub with the Cardas IMO.  Dennis has explained that you need to be far enough away from the speakers so that the sound coming from all of the drivers can integrate.  The minimum I remember was 2.5 meters or about 100” which was discussed here:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=69480.msg645527#msg645527

That is farther away than a Cardas setup would give me.

I also tried the 38% rule for my listening position:

http://www.realtraps.com/art_room-setup.htm

This left me too close to the TV which was an HT limitation.  I did try 38% from the rear wall but that didn't fit with my surround speaker setup.

I tried WASP:

http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/waspe.html

I tried Wayner's 29% rule.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=72418.msg678597#msg678597

I listened to a lot of Jennifer Warnes while trying the Master Set method:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=64320.0

Hunecke method:

http://www.hunecke.de/en/calculators/loudspeakers.html

Green Mountain Audio method:

http://www.greenmountainaudio.com/how-to-place-speakers/

and many others...


I finally ended up by putting my speakers at 1/5 of the room dimensions (page 6). 

http://usheraudiousa.com/files/Speaker_Placement_r3.pdf

This, along with the acoustic treatments I put in, seemed to tame the bass ringing in the room.  I adjusted my listening position to be at least 100" away and also for the best vocal clarity.  This also matched up with this comment about using thirds and fifths:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=73815.msg745679#msg745679


This puts me at 33" from the sidewall and 60" from the front wall...for now.  My listening position is around 40-45% away from the front wall.   

REW measurement, the next frontier...


My favorite demo song?

Ray Charles/Natalie Cole "Fever",  Great soundstage, good imaging with the two vocals, reasonable bass line and a female vocal for clarity.

[TJHUB]

WOW!!!

I feel a little silly asking you that question I did in the other thread.    That's a lot of work you've done there.  Far more than I've ever experimented with.  I am VERY impressed. 

I'll try to add something worth while tomorrow evening when I get some time.

[Nuance]

Sounds like this could also be followed to set up the SongTower's, HT1's, HT3's, etc.  Why no love for us? 

[Vulcan00]

V-B0b
Your room is about the size of mine.

[vintagebob]

Sounds like this could also be followed to set up the SongTower's, HT1's, HT3's, etc.  Why no love for us? 

I'm not so sure?  The SongTowers wouldn't have the same amount of bass output and the HT-1 & HT-3 do not use a Transmission Line design so I think that they would load the room differently.  You and TJHUB are also using a 2.1 system and I'm currently going with a 2.0.  So many variables, so little time...  ; )

[TJHUB]

I'm not so sure?  The SongTowers wouldn't have the same amount of bass output and the HT-1 & HT-3 do not use a Transmission Line design so I think that they would load the room differently.  You and TJHUB are also using a 2.1 system and I'm currently going with a 2.0.  So many variables, so little time...  ; )

Bob,

For the record, I'm 2.0.  I was running a sub, but I heard it was "audio blasphemy", so I went sans sub. 

Seriously though...no sub for me for the last month or so.

[vintagebob]

but I heard it was "audio blasphemy", so I went sans sub. 

LOL!   Do you miss the sub at all?

[Nuance]

All those methods will probably get a person in a better position, but it all depends on the room and treating the ringing, modes, etc.  If one is not willing to fix those issues they probably shouldn't expect high end sound, and will probably end up forever chasing the holy grail in attempt to get the sound they're after. 

I too am at odds with the Cardas method, for what its worth.  I remember Dennis saying you need to sit a certain distance from an MTM design else comb filtering can be an issue (or was it lobing?).  Cardas puts most people a little too close IMO, but YMMV. 

Anyway, I was mainly referring to the different speaker setup methods you linked, Bob, which apply to all speakers.  No worries - this can be an all HT2-TL owners thread.   

[vintagebob]

I was mainly referring to the different speaker setup methods you linked, which apply to all speakers. 

No worries, Bob - this can be an all HT2 owners thread.   

That wasn't the goal.  You are 100% correct when you say that anyone can use these methods.  My point was that my conclusion and ultimate solution may not apply to other folks.

[Nuance]

That wasn't the goal.  You are 100% correct when you say that anyone can use these methods.  My point was that my conclusion and ultimate solution may not apply to other folks.

Cool cool - I follow ya.    You're 100% correct and I look forward to seeing how other HT2-TL owners arrived at their goal. 

[TJHUB]

LOL!   Do you miss the sub at all?

Yes and no.  I have a better overall bass sound right now which a credit my new preamp and amps for doing, but if I could run a sub, I might just to help tame the room modes.  Do I think I need a sub?  No, not at all.  My HT2-TLs can shake the floor and feel very "visceral".  They also measure down to the low 20's in my room.

 

[Nuance]

Yes and no.  I have a better overall bass sound right now which a credit my new preamp and amps for doing, but if I could run a sub, I might just to help tame the room modes.  Do I think I need a sub?  No, not at all.  My HT2-TLs can shake the floor and feel very "visceral".  They also measure down to the low 20's in my room.

 

I can vouch for that.  Lots 'o bass! 

[Nuance]

There's dozens of HT2-TL owners out there.  Come on - share your setup/calibration stories! What setup methods did you take in order to achieve audio nirvana?

[coke]

There's dozens of HT2-TL owners out there.  Come on - share your setup/calibration stories! What setup methods did you take in order to achieve audio nirvana?

Mine are in a really small room which limits placement.  In addition to that, i have a 100" screen which further limits placement.    I've played around with toe in, and distance from the front wall, but other than that, i haven't been able to do much.  In my application though, they sound much better with no toe in.   

I plan on moving within the next year, and while searching for houses, a room suitable for audio will be near the top of my list of things to look for. 

[vintagebob]

Mine are in a really small room which limits placement.  In addition to that, i have a 100" screen which further limits placement.    I've played around with toe in, and distance from the front wall, but other than that, i haven't been able to do much.  In my application though, they sound much better with no toe in.   

I plan on moving within the next year, and while searching for houses, a room suitable for audio will be near the top of my list of things to look for.

I agree that little or no toe in seems to work best.  I have a small amount of toe in with mine.

[WGH]

Mine are in a really small room which limits placement.

How small is it?

[TJHUB]

I agree that little or no toe in seems to work best.  I have a small amount of toe in with mine.

I tried more toe in on mine a couple of weeks back because I wasn't getting enough tweeter energy.  The change imaging was terrible!  Toed them back out and all was good again.  I do run with a small amount of toe in though.

[mathgeek97]

There's dozens of HT2-TL owners out there.  Come on - share your setup/calibration stories! What setup methods did you take in order to achieve audio nirvana?

My HT2-TL towers are in my living room.  I mostly tried to do Cardas, but the wife kept scooting them back.  (this was after I slowly - a few inches a day - scooted the TV and the speaker in towards the room... )  I *heart* passive-aggressive speaker placement.     Anyhow, they seemed a little boomy using Cardas, and now I've kind of just moved them a few inches this way or that way to get a nice soundstage and good imaging.  As far as toe-in goes, they are only slightly toed-in.  That seemed to work the best IN MY ROOM.
I think I might have to try the 1/5 rule or maybe another on the list.  BTW, my room is a very nice 14'x22'x8' so nodes are pretty minimal.

[coke]

How small is it?

Can't remember exactly off the top of my head, but I think it's 11x14.  I also have my computer and some other stuff in there, so usuable space is roughly 11x11.  Songtowers would have been more than adequate for this room, but I don't plan to use it much longer.

[coke]

I tried more toe in on mine a couple of weeks back because I wasn't getting enough tweeter energy.  The change imaging was terrible!  Toed them back out and all was good again.  I do run with a small amount of toe in though.

I had the same experience.

No or very little toe in = Great imaging.  Vocals and instruments can be easily located, and there's a nice amount of depth

Toe in = everything blurred together