[kavu]

So, I purchased a set of penaudio serenade speakers about a month or so ago. They never quite sounded right and I haven't been able to figure out why. The bass was never as deep as I thought it would be and the sound is a bit recessed. I figured it might just be a different presentation style.

This past weekend, I slipped in the Stereophile test cd and, from what I can tell, it seems like the speakers may be out of phase (I did the fender bass guitar tracks...and the one that is supposed to have no central image has one, the one that is supposed to have a central image sounds more diffuse).

Any suggestions for what to do?

[Nuance]

Check your wiring, and please describe how they were set up (room size, all distances from boundaries, how far apart and how far from the LP, etc).  Do you have the ability to take in-room measurements?

[Wayner]

Flip the + and - on one speaker and play your test CD again. It will either sound better (your speakers are then wired out of phase internally) or worse (now they are out of phase).

Wayner 

[AB]

So, I purchased a set of penaudio serenade speakers about a month or so ago. They never quite sounded right and I haven't been able to figure out why. The bass was never as deep as I thought it would be and the sound is a bit recessed. I figured it might just be a different presentation style.

This past weekend, I slipped in the Stereophile test cd and, from what I can tell, it seems like the speakers may be out of phase (I did the fender bass guitar tracks...and the one that is supposed to have no central image has one, the one that is supposed to have a central image sounds more diffuse).

Any suggestions for what to do?

Reverse one set of speaker leads - if the red is on the left speaker terminal attach it to the right terminal. Take the other lead and attach it to the left terminal. Run the same test and see if you still have a ctr image.


Oh. Deja post.

[kavu]

Thanks everyone...listened to it again, and the phasing is actually ok. I've been going back and forth with it...sometimes it sounds ok, sometimes not.

In general, something doesn't seem to sound right with these speakers to my ears...but it may just not be good with the rest of the system. Can't seem to get really good sound out of them.

Thanks for chiming in everyone.
dan

[AB]

Thanks everyone...listened to it again, and the phasing is actually ok. I've been going back and forth with it...sometimes it sounds ok, sometimes not.

In general, something doesn't seem to sound right with these speakers to my ears...but it may just not be good with the rest of the system. Can't seem to get really good sound out of them.

Thanks for chiming in everyone.
dan

Break In?

How many hours on them?

[Nuance]

Thanks everyone...listened to it again, and the phasing is actually ok. I've been going back and forth with it...sometimes it sounds ok, sometimes not.

In general, something doesn't seem to sound right with these speakers to my ears...but it may just not be good with the rest of the system. Can't seem to get really good sound out of them.

Thanks for chiming in everyone.
dan

That's a major bummer; sorry to hear that.  My guess is its probably the room.  How large is it?  How far are the speakers from the back and side walls?  How far away do you sit from the speakers?  Is the listening position near a room boundary?  What front end gear are you using to run the speakers?

Answering some of these questions will better help us help you.   

[kavu]

That's a major bummer; sorry to hear that.  My guess is its probably the room.  How large is it?  How far are the speakers from the back and side walls?  How far away do you sit from the speakers?  Is the listening position near a room boundary?  What front end gear are you using to run the speakers?

Answering some of these questions will better help us help you.   

Definitely not a break in issue as these were purchased used (and I believe used to be owned by Jeff from toneaudio).
The room is 15x15. The speakers are not equidistant from side walls and one speaker has a wall behind it and the other doesn't (opens into the foyer).
So one speaker is about 3 feet from the side wall and two and a half from the back wall. The other has no back wall and is about 5 feet from the other side wall.
Listening position is on a couch with a wall right behind it.

Rest of the system:
ATC SIA2-150 integrated (150wpc, mostly biased to class A)
oppo used as transport (or red wine audio server) into a bolder mensa dac (still haven't beaten it believe it or not).

best,
dan

[gerald porzio]

The rm. w/ 2 = dimensions is problematical.

[Wayner]

The rm. w/ 2 = dimensions is problematical.

+1

You need to move your speakers to another wall. The speakers need to have an even plane behind them. That affects low frequency response, the reason for your post. Try using the golden rule formula on speaker position. Put them at about 52" from the side walls and experiment from the rear (keeping both at the same distance). You need to think about symmetry.

Wayner

[Duke]

It is possible that a driver is hooked up backwards in one of the speakers.

You can check the woofers by using a battery.  Disconnect your speaker cable from the back of your amp, and press the + cable to the + end of the battery and the - to the -.  The woofer cone should pop forward.  Make sure it does so on both speakers, and if so then your woofers are in-phase.

Now that you know how to hook up your speakers so the woofers are defiintely in-phase, repeat the Atkinson bass guitar tracks and if his voice is not doing what the tracks say it should be, the wiring is reversed on one or more of the drivers in one of your speakers. 

You might be able to figure out which of the speakers is wrong by going to the warble tone tracks.  The one that's wrong may have a dip in the crossover region, but that actually depends on the crossover topology so it's not a sure thing.  Beyond that, I don't think I can help from here, but maybe the factory can.

Good luck.

[srb]

The rm. w/ 2 = dimensions is problematical.

What is rm. an abbreviation for?  I first assumed "room", but wouldn't think that one would type "rm." (3 characters) instead of "room" (4 characters).
 
Dan,
 
If I'm not mistaken, the speakers are mirror imaged with regard to the side-mounted woofer.  And I assume that the recommended orientation (I haven't seen an owner's manual) would be to have the woofers on the outside?
 
I'm curious what difference in response you might get if they were reversed with the woofers on the inside?  I don't know if that would result in any cancellation with normal toe-in.  They are crossed over rather high for a side mount at 180Hz, but what if they sounded better to your ear in this placement situation, regardless of theory?
 
You have probably read Wes Phillips' Stereophile review.  He seemed to have some bass issues and needed to move them closer to the rear wall.  I know you don't have a rear wall behind one of them.  Perhaps you could experiment with leaning a sheet of plywood behind it to see if that helps things.  If it does, maybe you could erect some sort of 2/3 height 3' wide "wall" or panel behind it?
 
http://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/206pen/
 
Steve
 

[roymail]

After trying all the good suggestions already listed here, how about *temporarily* moving them to a different location to listen to them.  They may sound completely different in another environment.  Good luck.   

[Pez]

It is also entirely possible that one of the drivers is internally wired out of phase so regardless of how you try to wire the +- terminals on the back it won't sound right. Open the speakers up and verify all the wiring is the same on both speakers otherwise you will never truly know if the problem is fixed.

[kavu]

A bit of an epilogue...

I moved the one speaker closer to both walls...and moved the other a bit further out...and voila...at least for classical music (chamber music), the system sounds about as good as I've ever heard any system. amazing.

Still haven't dialed it in for the other genres. And...I'm still using a sub, which I wouldn't think would be necessary for these speakers.

Nonetheless, some serious (and a bit unexpected) progress.

[warnerwh]

It could easily be that those speakers are a bad match in your room unless it has already been treated or electronically augmented. The difference in sound from room to room can make a 10k pair of speakers not sound as good as a 2k pair of speakers. This is not an exaggeration. Room position plays a very important role too. Try moving the speakers an inch or two in all directions as one will sound best. A 2" move can make quite a difference.