Looking for tube power amp suggestions

JakeJ · « **Reply #20 on:** 4 Mar 2010, 04:41 am »

Hi Stump.

First I'll ask the question I didn't see asked; what is your budget for said tube amp? What speakers will you be using it with?

As it stands you have great electronics and it would make our suggestions relevant to know more about your system as it currently exists. Including the room size.

The question of whether a tube amp will sound different depends on several factors including what the Gamut sounds like now with the associated electronics, speakers, and room.

OK, now that I have that off my chest I'll shamelessly shill Valve Amplification Company wares and the reason is obvious if you look at my system page.

I'll also add that I am currently setting up a second system in my "library" that will be a tube pre driving a SS amp which is something I have had success with in the past.

Are you trying to fix a problem? Think you're missing something? Just curious?

Anxiously awaiting,
Jake

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #21 on:** 4 Mar 2010, 02:51 pm »

I'm not experienced enough with tubes yet, but do know I like them. Have only owned Moscode hybrid, Jolida 102 integrated, a VTL, and now the Dodd's. I like 'em! Wish I had more time and moola to buy and sell some more on my short list like Atma Sphere.

toobluvr · « **Reply #22 on:** 4 Mar 2010, 05:48 pm »

Quote from: woodsyi on 4 Mar 2010, 04:32 am

I really think you have to consider speakers and power amps together. I just can't think of suggesting amp without knowing what kind of speakers you will be driving with the amp.

BINGO! Hand in glove. Two pieces of gear that are so interdependent that it is like shopping for one piece of gear.

The importance of synergy can't be underestimated, and certainly not ignored.

stump4545 · « **Reply #23 on:** 4 Mar 2010, 06:20 pm »

not trying to fix anything i love the way may system sounds with my HT3 speakers.

just for a future system and i'm thinking that tubes for a power amp should sound better otherwise it would seem like a lot of hassle to change power tubes all the time with little benefit and a little dangerous maybe with little kids in the house. it would be in a small room with maybe some deadalus high efficiency speakers.

how many hours do tubes for power amps last? range? any concern with little kids?

toobluvr · « **Reply #24 on:** 4 Mar 2010, 06:42 pm »

For protection, use the tube cage to protect the tubes from the outside world, and vice versa.

Life varies by tube type, but you can usually figure about 3000 hrs for common power tubes, much more for small signal tubes.

Personally, I happen to think the extra cost and effort needed to run tube gear is worth it. A quad of KT88 or EL34 (very common power tubes) will run you 100-200 bux, depending on the brand. If you listen 3 hrs per day, it will cost only 20 cents per day max per quad, and you will only need to retube roughly every 3 years.

For me, that is a small price to pay for a sonic presentation that is more in line with my tastes. I would never choose a lesser sound simply to save pennies per day. Others may feel differently.

Owning and running tube gear really is not as onerous and costly as some seem to think. Jump in, the water's fine!

JakeJ · « **Reply #25 on:** 4 Mar 2010, 08:03 pm »

To all involved in this thread,

Earlier this morning I attempted to split and move a post to the IGWB and thoroughly botched it.

The post in question was Wayner's plug for the new Van Alstine Ultravalve amp. During the removal process I clicked the wrong link and got lost in a digital vortex resulting in my not having an explanation placed where the original post was and I lost the original as well.

I begged for mercy and MaxCast was kind enough to find it and put in the bin but along with it went my explanation that I posted separately which ended up at the end of the thread like any other normal post does.

Apologies to you members, Wayner, and AVA.

Although I haven't heard an Ultravalve with my own ears the OP should still have it on his list of amps to check out. From the reports it definitely would be on my radar if I were looking for a tube amp fitting the requirements that stump4545 gave us. It would be nice if an Ultravalve owner would pipe up in this thread with their two cents worth on it.

Thank you,
Jake

Wayne1 · « **Reply #26 on:** 4 Mar 2010, 08:07 pm »

Quote from: stump4545 on 4 Mar 2010, 06:20 pm

not trying to fix anything i love the way may system sounds with my HT3 speakers.

just for a future system and i'm thinking that tubes for a power amp should sound better otherwise it would seem like a lot of hassle to change power tubes all the time with little benefit and a little dangerous maybe with little kids in the house. it would be in a small room with maybe some deadalus high efficiency speakers.

Last year at RMAF, during after hours listening, a pair of Quicksilver mono-blocks and a pair of Atma-Sphere M-60 mono-blocks were auditioned in the Daedalus Audio suite with the Ulysses speakers. There was a compatibility problem with the Quicksilver amps. Hum and noise and just not being very happy. The Atma-Sphere amps were a wonderful match-up. The room was a bit too large for this to be perfect, but in a smaller room, I could see these being a great combo.

The Ulysses were used with mono'ed ModWright amps during the day. The ModWrights were a better choice for full dynamics and extended low end in the large room. The Atma-Spheres did give off a more "holographic" image. The high end was also "sweeter" with the tubes.

There are rumblings that a larger pair of Atma-spheres might find their way into the Daedalus room this year at RMAF.

Lou has discussed sending out a pair of DA-RMa to Denver for break-in and evaluation prior to RMAF. If that comes about, I will try to make sure various Denver audiophiles will get a chance to listen to the speakers with their favorite tube amps. These can range from Jason's (Pez) 15 watt SimpleSE, through Tyson's modded out Stereo 70s to whatever Mike Galusha is using presently. I believe he still has a modded McIntosh MC275 IV and a pair of modded Consonance Cyber 845 single ended amps. There are also some ModWright amps that can be used to compare and contrast SS vs tube on these speakers.

mshan · « **Reply #27 on:** 4 Mar 2010, 08:20 pm »

Any idea how the Joule-Electra Stargate monoblocks might match up with those Daedalus speakers?

Wayner · « **Reply #28 on:** 4 Mar 2010, 08:36 pm »

Quote from: JakeJ on 4 Mar 2010, 08:03 pm

To all involved in this thread,

Earlier this morning I attempted to split and move a post to the IGWB and thoroughly botched it.

The post in question was Wayner's plug for the new Van Alstine Ultravalve amp. During the removal process I clicked the wrong link and got lost in a digital vortex resulting in my not having an explanation placed where the original post was and I lost the original as well.

I begged for mercy and MaxCast was kind enough to find it and put in the bin but along with it went my explanation that I posted separately which ended up at the end of the thread like any other normal post does.

Apologies to you members, Wayner, and AVA.

Although I haven't heard an Ultravalve with my own ears the OP should still have it on his list of amps to check out. From the reports it definitely would be on my radar if I were looking for a tube amp fitting the requirements that stump4545 gave us. It would be nice if an Ultravalve owner would pipe up in this thread with their two cents worth on it.

Thank you,
Jake

Everything is cool, and thank you Jake for pointing out my erroneous post as it is not allowed for MFGRs to post in these types of circles.

Wayner

Wayne1 · « **Reply #29 on:** 4 Mar 2010, 08:52 pm »

Quote from: Wayner on 4 Mar 2010, 08:36 pm

Everything is cool, and thank you Jake for pointing out my erroneous post as it is not allowed for MFGRs to post in these types of circles.

Wayner

Wayner,

Manufacturers are allowed to post anywhere. They just aren't allowed to promote their products outside of their own circle.

Quote from: mshan on 4 Mar 2010, 08:20 pm

Any idea how the Joule-Electra Stargate monoblocks might match up with those Daedalus speakers?

I have never heard the Stargate amps. The only Joule-Electra amps I have heard are the OTLs in Bobby Palkovic's Merlin room at RMAF. That room is always one of the best sounding. If you want to send a pair of the Stargates out to Denver this summer, I would be very happy to give my opinion of them.

JakeJ · « **Reply #30 on:** 4 Mar 2010, 09:08 pm »

Here are the guidelines I copied and pasted from the Industry Participants policy thread in the Rules 'n' Stuff circle.

"You are permitted to post about topics that do not mention your product or services anywhere on the site. You are not permitted to discuss or "pitch" your product or services outside of the areas below, except for the purpose of clarifying or adding additional factual information. You are also not permitted to send unsolicited personal messages (PMs) offering products or services."

You can freely use the Industry Ads and Industry Talk and Events circles to promote and discuss your products or services, respectively. If you have a working relationship with a manufacturer with a circle here, you can also post in that circle provided that the manufacturer has agreed to have you do so. (Examples: 1. A dealer for that manufacturer's product; 2. Someone who makes speaker boxes for a kit from that manufacturer.)

If you have a circle, then of course you are free to use it promote and discuss your product. If you carry dealer lines (as opposed to those products that you have played a significant hand in designing), you should consider simply posting in Industry Ads for those items and avoid using your circle to promote them."

mshan · « **Reply #31 on:** 4 Mar 2010, 09:09 pm »

LOL!

I don't have boxes for them, so I don't think they would make it cross country safely.

Seriously, though, I own an earlier iteration of the Merlin show system (VSM-SE bBAM, Joule-Electra LA-100 mk. 3 preamp, Joule-Electra Stargate monoblocks, and Cardas Golden Cross speaker wire) and have been very happy with system and was able to get off the audio equipment merry go round years ago. (currently downsizing to Omega Super 3R, Jolida JD-102b, and Cardas Quadlink cabling because my current listening room, 10 x 13, just does not allow the Merlins to breath, but otherwise the whole system would be keepers for life if I had an appropriate listening room).

Jud Barber did tell me he was surprised how close to his OTL designs they sounded, and I remember reading some review calling them baby LAMM amps. I would agree, they really do have "soul".

zybar · « **Reply #32 on:** 4 Mar 2010, 09:11 pm »

Quote from: Wayne1 on 4 Mar 2010, 08:07 pm

Last year at RMAF, during after hours listening, a pair of Quicksilver mono-blocks and a pair of Atma-Sphere M-60 mono-blocks were auditioned in the Daedalus Audio suite with the Ulysses speakers. There was a compatibility problem with the Quicksilver amps. Hum and noise and just not being very happy. The Atma-Sphere amps were a wonderful match-up. The room was a bit too large for this to be perfect, but in a smaller room, I could see these being a great combo.

The Ulysses were used with mono'ed ModWright amps during the day. The ModWrights were a better choice for full dynamics and extended low end in the large room. The Atma-Spheres did give off a more "holographic" image. The high end was also "sweeter" with the tubes.

There are rumblings that a larger pair of Atma-spheres might find their way into the Daedalus room this year at RMAF.

Lou has discussed sending out a pair of DA-RMa to Denver for break-in and evaluation prior to RMAF. If that comes about, I will try to make sure various Denver audiophiles will get a chance to listen to the speakers with their favorite tube amps. These can range from Jason's (Pez) 15 watt SimpleSE, through Tyson's modded out Stereo 70s to whatever Mike Galusha is using presently. I believe he still has a modded McIntosh MC275 IV and a pair of modded Consonance Cyber 845 single ended amps. There are also some ModWright amps that can be used to compare and contrast SS vs tube on these speakers.

I bet a pair of Atma-Sphere MA-1's would have no problem with the Daedalus speakers (or most speakers for that matter).

Wayne, your description of the Atma-Sphere amps is spot on and what I hear every time I turn my system on.

George

stump4545 · « **Reply #33 on:** 4 Mar 2010, 11:01 pm »

any suggestions for an id integrated tube pre amp/amp?

Ericus Rex · « **Reply #34 on:** 5 Mar 2010, 12:00 am »

Rugue Audio makes a couple of good tube integrateds, the Cronos and the Tempest.

http://www.rogueaudio.com/

Amp-wise I'd recommend the Music Reference RM-200. From your questions/concerns it sounds like this may be the amp for you. MR has a circle here on AC. You can buy directly from the manufacturer. The amp puts out 100 watts/channel on only 3 tubes/channel. I believe he claims tube life to be 10,000 hours (maybe it's only 6,000 but still very good, check with him). That means, in 10 years when you'll need to replace tubes you can retube the entire amp for about $200. This amp is powerful, clean, silent and exemplifies the best tubes can offer, IMO.

What I would strongly discourage is tip-toeing into tubes. You've got a high class SS amp in the Gamut. Try something in it's class. If you go cheap you won't hear what tubes really can offer. Jump in!
Best of luck!

toobluvr · « **Reply #35 on:** 5 Mar 2010, 01:45 am »

Quote from: stump4545 on 4 Mar 2010, 11:01 pm

any suggestions for an id integrated tube pre amp/amp?

What's an "id integrated"??

Hugh · « **Reply #36 on:** 5 Mar 2010, 02:04 am »

Internet Direct, may be?

Quote from: toobluvr on 5 Mar 2010, 01:45 am

What's an "id integrated"??

doug s. · « **Reply #37 on:** 5 Mar 2010, 02:24 am »

my understanding is that the ht3 speakers really need a lot of juice. we're talking spendy tube amps w/a lot of tubes. think the bigger mono blocks by antique sound labs, manley, vtl, etc. (or perhaps a mesa baron, if you can find one used - one yust sold on ebay for $2450.)

in your case, i would consider perhaps finding a different tube preamp, unless you are wanting to take the plunge into the mondo tube amp world. while i think the modwright preamps are really nice, they could easily be mistaken for s/s preamps, imo - perhaps a tube pre w/more of a tube sonic signature (ie: warmer, less lean sounding than the modwright), might get you where you are wanting to go.

doug s.

JakeJ · « **Reply #38 on:** 5 Mar 2010, 05:26 am »

Those of you coming to the party late please read the entire thread. The OP is looking for a tube amp for second system in a smaller room and he is considering a pair of Daedalus speakers for it. This has nothing to do with his primary system.

Or, at least, that's the what I picked up here.

doug s. · « **Reply #39 on:** 5 Mar 2010, 01:35 pm »

well, jake, you could be right. but, it really isn't clear to me exactly what is meant by "a future system". and, the op has another thread he started, asking for opinions comparing daedalus speakers to ht3's. so what a new tube amp might get used for by the op - whether this "future system" is a change to the main system, or a second system, is up in the air.

if i were looking for a tube amp to drive a reasonable wariety of speakers, w/o knowing which speaker, (something you don't really wanna do, imo), i'd choose the amp that gitarretyp is selling, or the yaqin mc-100b, an extremely flexible dual-mono amp that can be purchased brand-new for ~$500 shipped. it is triode-ul switchable, has separate bias adjustment for each tube, has built-in preamp that can be bypassed if you only want to use it as an amp. and, it's beautiful in either brass/silver, or black/silver. example:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250589824297

for hard-to-drive speakers, see my prior post. for hi-efficiency speakers, lower power single-ended amps could be considered...

doug s.