[EthanH]

So, I've had an Onix XCD88/Music Hall CD25 for a few years now.  It's pretty good for the money, but I think it's probably the weakest link in my system and I'm kicking around ideas re: a dac.  The thing is, I have this idea (unfounded, hopefully) that pretty much all digital gear under $1000 is more similar than different, and I'm afraid of spending any money on something that is not going to make much of difference in my system.  So I wonder, are the MHDT Labs and other popular ~$500 dacs really that great? 

I know I vastly prefer vinyl for the extra body and lower listening fatigue, but I'm guessing a lot of that comes from crappy CD recordings in addition to any intrinsic differences between the two technologies.  Old tube amps can sound great, ten year old premium speakers are still excellent, but it seems like the most expensive and advanced digital gear these days is lauded for sounding as good as obsolete vinyl.

I'm also sort of scared to spend any money on digital because I feel like whatever I buy will probably be obsolete in a year or two.  So, what should I do?  Hunt down an Audio Sector or some other dac?  Buy an HRT streamer and a Rega P3?  Stick with my gear and wait for The Next Big Thing?  Opinions welcome!

[K Shep]

Find an Audio Shop that has demo digital that you may borrow and take the equipment home and play with it in your system.

Or

Purchase used gear from Audiogon.  If you're unhappy with the performance of a piece put it back up for sale. 

[honesthoff]

Ethan,

I upgraded from the Music Hall to a Benchmark DAC + Audio Research transport and I can assure you the difference is astounding.  The Benchmark should sell around $700.00 on the used market, and you are unlikely to lose much or any money if you decide you don't like it.  It really has been an eye-opening piece of gear for me, and the single best bargain in audio I have ever purchased.  I would not characterize it as vinyl-- or tube--like, however.

[EthanH]

Find an Audio Shop that has demo digital that you may borrow and take the equipment home and play with it in your system.

Or

Purchase used gear from Audiogon.  If you're unhappy with the performance of a piece put it back up for sale.

Fair enough, and I suppose "buy and try" is as a good a response as any for these type of "is X going to sound better than Y" inquiries.  I'm wondering though if anyone has an opinion on whether my suspicion that most budget digital components are more similar than different, and whether I should expect anything more than a merely incremental improvement upon my current source. 

honesthoff, thanks for the tip on the Benchmark.  I've heard about the DAC1 for years but have always been a little wary due to the many "analytical, sterile, etc." adjectives that seem to get thrown around a lot when people discuss it.  Although I do recall reading that the later models have a more natural or musical sound to them, so I've actually been considering a benchmark for a while due to the excellent resale as you point out.  Have you tried the Music Hall as a transport?  Thanks again.

[pardales]

Either buy used or buy stuff that comes with a trial period. You are the only one who is going to be able to decide whether a piece of gear is worth the money or a big enough improvement to warrant its cost.

I have listened to a lot of DAC's under 1K and my own philosophy tells me that one does not need to spend more than 1K to get outstanding performance from digital these days. In fact, I think enough advancement is being made on the digital front these days that it is unwise to spend more than 1K right now.

This is a hunch, based on your comments, but I think you should look at NOS DAC's first (Havana, Audiosector, Altmann, Tranquility, etc.). Of course, lot of people like the Benchmark too.

That my .02

[EthanH]

That's good to hear that you think there are truly high performance dacs available for around $1000 or so.  I guess I'll have to try one with decent resale value to see if it's worth it for me.  So far some dacs that are on my radar include the Audiosector, PS Audio DLIII, and Benchmark.  I hear good things about the Musical Fidelity V-Dac and Twisted Pear designs too.  The Tranquility sounds great but the lack of coax or optical is sort of unfortunate, plus I'd have to save up for a while since they don't come up used very often.

[Bob Wilcox]

You might want to consider an OPPO universal blu-ray player which has good DAC chips and analog output section - about $900.

[rajacat]

Another option is a Bolder modified Squeezebox with the digital only mod. http://www.boldercables.com/servlet/-strse-382/Squeeze-Box-SqueezeBox-Slim/Detail
Use any DAC you want and the SB will serve as a wireless transport. Keep your entire music collection on an USB external hard drive and back it up with another external hard drive.http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136489 Use an inexpensive laptop as your remote thereby having your entire music collection at your fingertips complete with album art. Burn your CDs to the hard drive with dbPoweramp which automatically retrieves the album art from the internet.http://www.dbpoweramp.com/

When the technology advances just swap DACs and keep the SB as your transport.

IMO this system will make it hard to go back to handling individual CDs. All my CDs are stowed in the closet. Also the sound quality is very high.

-Roy

[BobM]

I think digital has taken a huge leap forward again with the new anti-aliasing filter technology. It's just a matter of time before it trickles down completely.

[srb]

The OP's question asks
 - will ~$500 DACs provide a reasonable sound improvement over what I have?
 - or do I have to spend $1000+?
 - or should I get an inexpensive DAC now and wait for technology?
 
I'm not sure "get a modified Squeezebox, a USB external drive, another external drive for backup and an inexpensive laptop for remote control" helps him out.
 
I cycled through two mid-priced DACs - The MHDT Paradisea (stock except for WE396 tube upgrade) and the Stello DA100 Signature (stock).  Neither provided enough of an improvement over the internal DAC in my Rotel RSX-1056 receiver to warrant keeping them.
 
They were both bought used off of Audiogon, so I had to "buy it to try it".  Although I kept each of them for months, It didn't take more than a week to A/B and get very familiar with their sound compared to my original setup.  And I did get back 90%+ of my investment.
 
I agree that each passing year gets us a little closer to smoother and more musical sound from a DAC.  My next possible step might be one of these new DACs: the Eastern Electric Minimax Tube DAC or the Audio by Van Alstine Vision DAC.  The user evaluations and comparisons are just starting to come in on these.  Being brand new, there won't be any on the used market for awhile, so for now the price of admission is $800 - $1100.
 
Steve

[rajacat]

The OP's question asks
 - will ~$500 DACs provide a reasonable sound improvement over what I have?
 - or do I have to spend $1000+?
 - or should I get an inexpensive DAC now and wait for technology?
 
I'm not sure "get a modified Squeezebox, a USB external drive, another external drive for backup and an inexpensive laptop for remote control" helps him out.
 
I cycled through two mid-priced DACs - The MHDT Paradisea (stock except for WE396 tube upgrade) and the Stello DA100 Signature (stock).  Neither provided enough of an improvement over the internal DAC in my Rotel RSX-1056 receiver to warrant keeping them.
 
They were both bought used off of Audiogon, so I had to "buy it to try it".  Although I kept each of them for months, It didn't take more than a week to A/B and get very familiar with their sound compared to my original setup.  And I did get back 90%+ of my investment.
 
I agree that each passing year gets us a little closer to smoother and more musical sound from a DAC.  My next possible step might be one of these new DACs: the Eastern Electric Minimax Tube DAC or the Audio by Van Alstine Vision DAC.  The user evaluations and comparisons are just starting to come in on these.  Being brand new, there won't be any on the used market for awhile, so for now the price of admission is $800 - $1100.
 
Steve

Perhaps the OP already has a laptop so that wouldn't be included in the start up cost.
Wireless control of your music library IMO is a substantial convenience upgrade and well worth some extra $s.

I now look at CD players as a PITA and they will soon be obsolete. If you are going to do digital, computer based audio is the way to go. The SB is not the only computer based audio available  but its been around long enough so that it doesn't require a tech guru to get it working well.

-Roy

[srb]

Roy, it's not that I don't understand and agree with everything you said, but EthanH is looking for a DAC, regardless of his digital source, so I thought your response was more appropriate for a topic titled "CD Player or Music Server?"
 
If you look at my system listing, you will see that I myself use a PC-based music server, but I didn't even mention that as I didn't think it was pertinent to his inquiry.  But when that topic does come up, I will voice my enthusiam as well, but it won't be for a Squeezebox based system, but rather an iTunes based system with iPod Touch remote control!
 
But let's get back to helping Ethan find a DAC!
 
Steve

[rajacat]

Steve,

OK, my mistake but I thought that the OP meant "scared of upgrading my digital" so I thought that that would include the transport too.

BTW my digital playback gear cost me in the neighborhood of $1000 (not including laptop and external drives) so I'm not that far off the cost of some of the DACs discussed here and I think that it sounds very good. Of course I've done some tweaks and mods that contribute to the SQ so it's hardly stock.
Of course I too am always on the prowl for a better DAC but my modded MHDT Constantine dac is good enough for now. I purchased it before they were well known and cheaper than they are now. In fact I don't think that they're made anymore.

I'm not an Apple guy.

-Roy