What are you guys using for digital playback?

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rob80b

Re: What are you guys using for digital playback?
« Reply #20 on: 2 Mar 2010, 03:23 am »
I use an Esoteric X-05. I do not know if I will be adopting any other digital formats at this time. I like the X-05’s SACD option, however it is difficult at times to find music titles that I enjoy in SACD format. I am looking forward to the addition of a TT in the future.

Be well…   

Hi Laundrew

My brother was up for the weekend and was all over SACD but I'm in the same boat, as there's little available that I'd listen to, so it's strictly the BCD-1 for now and some vinyl.

Robert

Robert

95Dyna

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Re: What are you guys using for digital playback?
« Reply #21 on: 2 Mar 2010, 05:05 am »
Hi Laundrew

My brother was up for the weekend and was all over SACD but I'm in the same boat, as there's little available that I'd listen to, so it's strictly the BCD-1 for now and some vinyl.

Robert

Robert

I bought the X-05 primarily because I wanted to start listening to SACD.  That it is a mighty fine redbook player as well is bonus.  I listen to alot of classical and am a huge hard core Jazz fan.  Of the many things I love about Jazz acoustic bass is at the top of the list and the X-05 playing either CD or SACD makes me think I have had Ron Carter, Ray Brown, Christian McBride et al as guests in my living room.  If you are a fan of these two genres you are in fat city for SACD.  There are lots of classic rock titles on SACD as well.

firedog

Re: What are you guys using for digital playback?
« Reply #22 on: 2 Mar 2010, 07:43 am »
I use a fanless dedicated music server>Logitech Duet as slave>Empirical Audio PaceCar (master)>DAC. Mostly FLAC, but some wav and aiff.

I think with a good DAC, this sounds better than almost any CD player. It doesn't natively play hi-res, but that will change soon with new products coming onto the market to replace the Duet.

I also have a PC>M-Audio 192 soundcard>DAC. This sounds pretty good, but isn't on the level of the Pace Car setup.

I theoretically agree with the previous poster about it being better to use uncompressed files, but in blind testing I haven't found anyone who can consistently differentiate between FLAC and uncompressed.

The whole PC/Server audio world is developing rapidly. This year a lot of specially designed USB devices that are compatible with hi-res files up to 24/192 are coming out. I think there are some excellent DACs (true audiophile quality, able to play hi-res) starting at around $1000. In short, the stuff is getting cheaper and better all the time. I think using a simple laptop and some of these devices you can get very high level digital to analogue solution for $1500-$3000.  IMHO opinion, these solutions will sound better than almost all CD decks, and they can play hi-res. The user interfaces are also improving, but this is still a bit of a problem if you want to build your own solution and not go for a package like the Logitech or Sooloos.

If you are willing to go for a very high end DAC (say $3000-$5000), then I'm not sure you will find a CD player that sounds better. I would say you can't find a CD player that sounds better, but I haven't heard a couple of the newer super hi-end players like the Esoteric and the Meridian.

Everyone I know who has switched from CD to server based playback says they enjoy their music collection more with the server - the convenience of server based playback causes them to listen more, and to more of their collection, than before. Not to mention that for most people the sound is also improved.

sfraser

Re: What are you guys using for digital playback?
« Reply #23 on: 3 Mar 2010, 01:24 pm »
Currently using my Ubuntu video server with Logitech Squeezeserver software application installed. All my Flac/mp3's are located on a FreeNAS server  which the Ubuntu server mounts remotely and stream's to a variety of Logitech Squeezebox's throughout the house. In the family room and audio room  i use the Squeezebox digitial output to feed  a Bryston SP1 DAC and  a Benchmark DAC-1.

vegasdave

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Re: What are you guys using for digital playback?
« Reply #24 on: 4 Mar 2010, 10:07 pm »
Nothing special. An Onkyo DX-7555 cd player. It's rated very highly in its price class. It sounds good to me, but it's no BCD-1, obviously. I'm really a vinyl guy, so it's basically good enough for me. However, I'd love to have a BDA-1! I can't afford one, though.

quietdragon

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Re: What are you guys using for digital playback?
« Reply #25 on: 5 Mar 2010, 12:50 am »
Fedora RAID1 server houses content. After all that time spent ripping discs, I don't want to have to do it again. (Hard drives do fail. My drives are monitored for health. I've swapped them out once when they were generating suspicious reports, and I've returned another on warranty when it developed bad sectors.)

I no longer have a dedicated CD player.

I run a set of SqueezeBoxes of various types. The use model with the information display and accessible remote control is very alluring and easy for the whole family to use.

Since I've upgraded a Bryston power amplifier in my main listening area, the SqueezeBox DAC is the next target for attention   :D

Laundrew

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Re: What are you guys using for digital playback?
« Reply #26 on: 5 Mar 2010, 02:58 am »
Hi Laundrew

My brother was up for the weekend and was all over SACD but I'm in the same boat, as there's little available that I'd listen to, so it's strictly the BCD-1 for now and some vinyl.

Robert

Robert

Hello Roboert :D

I was down at Sonic Boom today (a used CD/record store) and I purchased a record by The Mission - it is very easy to find the music I enjoy on vinyl. The irony of it all…

A $4.95 purchase for this record is going to cost me thousands of dollars to listen to it :duh: :wink:

Be well...

konut

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Re: What are you guys using for digital playback?
« Reply #27 on: 5 Mar 2010, 03:37 am »
Running SlimServer Version: 6.5.4 on a Toshiba Satellite outboard 320gb HD (all FLAC) in a MinistackV1 via 15ft USB cable in another room(noise) to ethernet connected Red Wine modded(battery)Squeezebox SB3 via 16ft(thanks Pat@art) Bluejeans BNC to BNC coax to Bryston BDA-1---> Creek OBH-12--> Marchand passive high pass(@70hz)--> AV123 X-Amps--> SP Tech(now Aether) Timepiece Minis, Sub-- AV123 UFW-12 Hot Rod. Y cable after the Creek to the Marchand and the sub.

1ZIP

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Re: What are you guys using for digital playback?
« Reply #28 on: 5 Mar 2010, 04:02 am »
Wow!  What ever you said....I want one! :D

konut

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Re: What are you guys using for digital playback?
« Reply #29 on: 5 Mar 2010, 05:09 am »
You think its easy to cobble together these obscure components?  :thankyou: :green:

whanafi

Re: What are you guys using for digital playback?
« Reply #30 on: 6 Mar 2010, 04:34 am »
I realize there is a lot of emotion when it comes to audio - have been out of this for some time, so it was interesting to see that all the "psycho-acoustic" stuff that used to be debated about turntables has transferred to digital.

I have to say that as someone who has been building PC's since they were invented, I have a great deal of difficulty with some of the assertions being made about audible effects from various parts of the reproduction chain.

I am a big believer in fidelity to source, and transparency in path. 

Since the CD contains a digital file, and the read mechanism is inferior to a hard disk (due to the Redbook (lack of) error correcting), any audible effect is going to come from a failure to read the data correctly, the quality of the DAC, and/or the quality of the analogue output within the CD player.

By eliminating the CD and working with a source digital file, one source of error is gone.  With an external DAC, one has a choice based mostly on economics, and then the reason I bought the Bryston BP26/MM and 4BsSST2 is their mastery of the analogue space.

I went with the Transporter as my digital "player" because I was starting from the streaming problem, not the DAC problem. 

I ripped to FLAC as my digital source.  When you use a program like dbPoweramp or EAC to do the ripping, you start to see the "read" problem.  It is possible to get a different digital file out of successive reads, which attests to the lack of robust error correction and the fragility of the CD as a source.  The dpPoweramp software compares the rip against a database of other rips to give you an indication of whether or not you matched the most common result.

Once you do have a clean digital file and store it in the computer domain, there is no chance the source will be affected by moving it between components.

I do understand there is the issue of jitter, but before we go there, just remember that we are typing on a message board using widely different source equipment (PC, MAC, software) across thousands of different networks containing tens of thousands of routers and switches, and yet somehow, without fail, when I hit an "a" I get an "a".

I suppose the digital player is also a possible variable - FLAC is a standard encoding format and lossless, and the decoder is also standard, so a proper implementation should deliver the same bitstream regardless of hardware.  As long as you are in the digital domain there can't be anything affecting the source (remember the "a")

Now that I have the whole thing set up, the question would be whether an additional investment in another DAC would be audible to me.  I accept that this is personal to everyone, so I only judge with a sample of one.

The real question for me is why the music industry won't sell me a high quality digital source file so that I don't have to go through all this rigmarole to listen to music.

Cheers,
Waleed.

whanafi

Re: What are you guys using for digital playback?
« Reply #31 on: 6 Mar 2010, 04:37 am »
Running SlimServer Version: 6.5.4 on a Toshiba Satellite outboard 320gb HD (all FLAC) in a MinistackV1 via 15ft USB cable in another room(noise) to ethernet connected Red Wine modded(battery)Squeezebox SB3 via 16ft(thanks Pat@art) Bluejeans BNC to BNC coax to Bryston BDA-1---> Creek OBH-12--> Marchand passive high pass(@70hz)--> AV123 X-Amps--> SP Tech(now Aether) Timepiece Minis, Sub-- AV123 UFW-12 Hot Rod. Y cable after the Creek to the Marchand and the sub.

Hi konut,

Curious why you are staying with such an old release of Slimserver?

brucek

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Re: What are you guys using for digital playback?
« Reply #32 on: 6 Mar 2010, 12:18 pm »
Quote
I do understand there is the issue of jitter, but before we go there, just remember that we are typing on a message board using widely different source equipment (PC, MAC, software) across thousands of different networks containing tens of thousands of routers and switches, and yet somehow, without fail, when I hit an "a" I get an "a".

Yes, but how will that "a" sound? The SPD/IF interface utilizes an embedded clock in the data, that must be extracted at the receiver to synchronize the data rate of conversion. The argument isn't that data will be lost, rather how it will sound once jitter distorts the resulting analog signal.

brucek

whanafi

Re: What are you guys using for digital playback?
« Reply #33 on: 6 Mar 2010, 12:28 pm »
Yes, but how will that "a" sound? The SPD/IF interface utilizes an embedded clock in the data, that must be extracted at the receiver to synchronize the data rate of conversion. The argument isn't that data will be lost, rather how it will sound once jitter distorts the resulting analog signal.

brucek

I am not using a S/PDIF interface in the setup, because I am not using a computer to "play" the music. 

The digital source is a file stored on a hard disk.  The Transporter pulls the file over Ethernet and then passes the source data to it's internal DAC and outputs the result to balanced XLR analogue outputs which then feed the BP26/MM.

The chance for jitter seems minimal/not applicable.

I can see an argument for choosing a different DAC because of the analogue stage, but not because of jitter in this case.

Cheers,
Waleed.

brucek

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Re: What are you guys using for digital playback?
« Reply #34 on: 6 Mar 2010, 01:35 pm »
Quote
The chance for jitter seems minimal/not applicable.

Yep, my bad, I thought you were feeding an external DAC. In your case (as is the case with a CD player), the master clock used to extract the data from the source is the same clock used to clock the data through the DAC - no jitter.

Personally, I don't feel jitter is an issue with a decent computer setup either. I use EAC/FLAC to create the best possible source from my CD's, then use a very good 24/96 soundcard (M-Audio Delta Audiophile) to pass the information to a Bryston SP2 DAC. I also use Foobar (running the Windows Audio Session API exclusive mode (WASAPI) dll component that sends exact bitstream directly to the soundcard) as the player to upsample the 44.1K information to 88.2K before being passed on the SPD/IF interface.

brucek

nl12048

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Re: What are you guys using for digital playback?
« Reply #35 on: 6 Mar 2010, 01:41 pm »
After sudden boot problems, I decided to change my Windows 7 installation for Ubuntu 9.10 on my HTPC. Installed songbird 1.4.3 and everything works fine again. Any suggestions on finetuning music playback on linux?

whanafi

Re: What are you guys using for digital playback?
« Reply #36 on: 6 Mar 2010, 01:46 pm »
Yep, my bad, I thought you were feeding an external DAC. In your case (as is the case with a CD player), the master clock used to extract the data from the source is the same clock used to clock the data through the DAC - no jitter.

Personally, I don't feel jitter is an issue with a decent computer setup either. I use EAC/FLAC to create the best possible source from my CD's, then use a very good 24/96 soundcard (M-Audio Delta Audiophile) to pass the information to a Bryston SP2 DAC. I also use Foobar (running the Windows Audio Session API exclusive mode (WASAPI) dll component that sends exact bitstream directly to the soundcard) as the player to upsample the 44.1K information to 88.2K before being passed on the SPD/IF interface.

brucek

I guess we have the same understanding of the source, we just differ in transferring it to the analogue world.  I wanted to separate the PC from the reproduction both for noise and for aesthetics (the code word for keeping my wife happy).  She manages the Transporter interface, but won't touch a PC.

Waleed.

jtsnead

Re: What are you guys using for digital playback?
« Reply #37 on: 6 Mar 2010, 02:03 pm »
Marantz SA-11S2 for SACD and as a transport into a BDA-1. The SA-11S2 has become overkill for SACD only so I am researching less expensive players...

Hey Ron,

I had both of the Marantz SA11S2 and S1, I got the Sony SCD-XA5400ES and compared it directly (S2), with the SS gear I had at the time the S2 was a good match, however the Sony is a real steal at the price, it is more resolving with excellent tone amd imaging, highly recommended

Ron D

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Re: What are you guys using for digital playback?
« Reply #38 on: 6 Mar 2010, 07:30 pm »
well the Marantz is off to its new home and I have thought about the new Sony but with the BDA-1 in play (and waiting for the new Bryston music server piece to be released) the Sony might be overkill just for SACD but you never know as I am unaware of any piece (new) other than the highly touted and still relatively new OPPO 83SE for under a grand that may do a decent job on SACD.

konut

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Re: What are you guys using for digital playback?
« Reply #39 on: 6 Mar 2010, 10:54 pm »
Hi konut,

Curious why you are staying with such an old release of Slimserver?

2 reasons. I did not require the added functionality/bug fixes that subsequent releases offered and, more importantly, the sound was so good I was loathe to change anything risking inoperablity as I am not that tech savvy when it comes to software.

I too feel that Bryston has the mastery of the analog domain. I felt it was more important using the BDA-1 external DACs' class A analog output stage rather than dispensing with the S/PDIF connection, as you have done.