[jtsnead]

Hi,
I have a old Teac 4 track reel to reel a customer gave me years ago with a bunch of tapes London, Deutsche Grammophon, Columbia RCA etc, some good recordings that people pay alot for the lp versions(like a sealed copy of Debussy Lamer/Ansermet London tape). Some tapes are 4 track and some are 2 track.

The player has four outputs on the back labeled 1, 2, 3 and 4, my question is if I want to hook it up to my 2 channel system do I just use #1 and 2?

If I play back a 4 track tape will I miss half the music?

[Wayner]

Normally, a standard stereo 1/4 track would have music in one direction as tracks 1 and 3, and in the other direction, tracks 2 and 4. This is the same configuration as in cassette tapes/decks. If the recordings that are true 4 track, you will be missing 2 channels, unless  your deck has a blend feature that will sum up pairs of tracks for 2 channel listening. I have a 2 track, so the pairing is easy, track 1 is left, track 2 is right, flip the reels around and the music is backwards.

Speaking of backwards music, listen to Electric Light Orchestra, Fire on High, from the LP Eldorado. You will hear backwards music and verse. When played backwards, the message is revealed "The music is reversable, but time is not. Turn back, turn back, turn back.......

I always wanted to tell somebody that one!

Wayner 

[Mike Nomad]

Speaking of backwards music, listen to Electric Light Orchestra, Fire on High, from the LP Eldorado. You will hear backwards music and verse. When played backwards, the message is revealed "The music is reversable, but time is not. Turn back, turn back, turn back.......

I always wanted to tell somebody that one!

Wayner 

Or the track Empty Spaces on Pink Floyd's The Wall.

[jtsnead]

thanks for the replies

so playing a 2 track tape on the Teac 4 track machine I would hook up #1 and #3 to the left and right stereo inputs on my preamp?

no blend feature on my deck, looking on ebay for a manual I saw a simular model with meters and pots for recording, the unit I have only has the top part of the tape machine ie:no recording controls, sounds like I need to look for a two track model w/ blend feature to really enjoy the tapes I have

wondering how good the sound of these tapes are to begin with?

good recall on the ELO, I saw them in concert at the now long gone Capitol Center in Wash DC area, it was a great live show

[Mike Nomad]

so playing a 2 track tape on the Teac 4 track machine I would hook up #1 and #3 to the left and right stereo inputs on my preamp?

Probably more info than you want. However, go here:

http://www.richardhess.com/tape/sitemap.htm

Scroll down to Hierarchal listing of media formats, and look under Analog-audio. Not trying to be difficult, just that there can be a lot of variance depending on how your tapes were cut.

Mike

[Wayner]

thanks for the replies

so playing a 2 track tape on the Teac 4 track machine I would hook up #1 and #3 to the left and right stereo inputs on my preamp?

no blend feature on my deck, looking on ebay for a manual I saw a simular model with meters and pots for recording, the unit I have only has the top part of the tape machine ie:no recording controls, sounds like I need to look for a two track model w/ blend feature to really enjoy the tapes I have

wondering how good the sound of these tapes are to begin with?

good recall on the ELO, I saw them in concert at the now long gone Capitol Center in Wash DC area, it was a great live show

If you try to use a standard 1/4 track R2R with 4 channel music, you will still only hear 2 channels. The other 2 will be lost. I suggest putting your 4 track tapes on ebay, or you could hook your R2R up to your 5.1 and use the fronts and rears to sport the 4 channels.

Wayner

[Mike Nomad]

Before you go selling off tapes:

If there is a headphone jack on the deck, thread up one of the 4-track tapes and see (hear) what you get. If you get stuff going forwards and backwards simultaneously, then you know what you have. There's no telling what kind of heads the deck has until you play them.

[jtsnead]

Hey Wayner, hooking it up to my surronund system sounds like a good idea,
at least I would be able to tell how good the quality of the recording is.

This all started when I was reading about the high end tape decks being used
at the recent shows, so I pulled out the tapes and noticed I have some really
interesting music 4 track and 2 track, just wondering how good the sound is,
probally the quality of the deck has alot to do with it also.

Mike,
thanks for the link I will check it out, no headphone jack looks like it will go in the
surround system first, also I had to order power cord just to get it going, should
be interesting

Thats again guys

[Wayner]

Before you go selling off tapes:

If there is a headphone jack on the deck, thread up one of the 4-track tapes and see (hear) what you get. If you get stuff going forwards and backwards simultaneously, then you know what you have. There's no telling what kind of heads the deck has until you play them.

Good point, Mike.

I have had a couple of decks in my life, now with a Revox A77 half track, high speed. Still works great, but at the 2009 RMAF, I was in the Technics room and they were some awesome looking machines! Too much for my empty wallet.

Wayner 

[Bill Thomas]

     We need to go over a few "definitions" regarding the different tape formats.  You mention "2-track" and 4-track" tapes.  Of course, the 2-track tapes are designed to play back Two channels (left and right) at a time.  But, are the "4-track" tapes REALLY four discrete channels of audio?  Or are you *really* referring to 1/4-track tapes with only 2-tracks that should be played at a time?

     Here's the thing you need to keep in mind:  When playing back "1/4 inch 2-track tapes", the two recorded audio tracks take up the entire width of the tape (with a small guard band between the two tracks).  Unfortunately, when you try to play the same "1/4 inch 2-track tape on a head that was designed for "quarter-track" playback, one channel will be SUBSTANTIALLY softer and noisier than the other.  This is because the tracks do not line up properly.  When playing back a "1/4 inch 2-track" tape, you will need to play tracks One and Four on your four track tape deck for equal audio level.

     So, in order to properly advise you, we need to know if the "4-track tapes" really have four discrete tracks that are designed to be played back at the same time, or whether you REALLY have two *pairs* of tracks that are designed to be played back separately.

     Let us know.

Bill

[jtsnead]

see photos, front of box say's stereo, side of box say's 4 track

[JackD201]

Get a simple mixer with a stereo bus. You can get 'em for less than a hundred bucks in any musical instrument site.

[Mike Nomad]

see photos, front of box say's stereo, side of box say's 4 track

Stereo tape. When you go through one side, you flip the reel over. That's what allows them to go with a tape speed at 7.5 IPS.

Is there a label on the back of the box, or stickers on the reels, indicating "sides"?

[Bill Thomas]

     Since the label doesn't mention anything about "Quadraphonic" or "QUAD", I think it's safe to say that these are standard "consumer issue" releases in 1/4-track format.  In this case, playing tracks One and Three should give you a Left and Right Output.  At the end of the tape, you would flip the tape over to play the second pair of tracks.  (You would still play tracks One and Three on the Teac.)

     Tracks Two and Four will Output "Backwards Audio" from the other pair of tracks.  You don't need a mixer.  Just use the Audio from Tracks One and Three and you should be fine.

     Almost ALL "consumer issue" releases by the major record labels were issued in 1/4-track Stereo.  The better record labels issued them at 7 1/2 ips.  The cheapskates put 'em out at 3 3/4 ips.  There was a *significant* difference in the quality between the two speeds.  Reel-to-reel releases never approached *anything* close to "mass acceptance" in the marketplace.  They were actually considered by many to be rather "high-end" at the time.  (Just think, no ticks or scratches!)  The "Compact Cassette" put an end to open-reel issues within a few years of its introduction.  (Not to mention the Lear Stereo 8-track format for mobile use.)

     Open-reel releases were generally several generations away from the original Mixdown Master Tape.  Most record labels would NEVER ship a true "Master Tape" "out of house" but usually made a copy for the Tape house.

     Once that copy was received at the duplicating facility, a copy was made as a "Safety Copy" and another copy was used as the "Dubbing Master."  If the duplicating house used a "bin-loader" endless-loop system, an additional generation loss was usually necessary.  The final high-speed copy could EASILY be a fourth or fifth generation away from the "Mixdown "Master."

     Still, except for a somewhat elevated noise level, they sounded pretty-darned good when played on a properly aligned machine.  The REALLY good ones sounded outstanding!

     Enjoy!

Bill

[Wayner]

     Since the label doesn't mention anything about "Quadraphonic" or "QUAD", I think it's safe to say that these are standard "consumer issue" releases in 1/4-track format.  In this case, playing tracks One and Three should give you a Left and Right Output.  At the end of the tape, you would flip the tape over to play the second pair of tracks.  (You would still play tracks One and Three on the Teac.)

     Tracks Two and Four will Output "Backwards Audio" from the other pair of tracks.  You don't need a mixer.  Just use the Audio from Tracks One and Three and you should be fine.

     Almost ALL "consumer issue" releases by the major record labels were issued in 1/4-track Stereo.  The better record labels issued them at 7 1/2 ips.  The cheapskates put 'em out at 3 3/4 ips.  There was a *significant* difference in the quality between the two speeds.  Reel-to-reel releases never approached *anything* close to "mass acceptance" in the marketplace.  They were actually considered by many to be rather "high-end" at the time.  (Just think, no ticks or scratches!)  The "Compact Cassette" put an end to open-reel issues within a few years of its introduction.  (Not to mention the Lear Stereo 8-track format for mobile use.)

     Open-reel releases were generally several generations away from the original Mixdown Master Tape.  Most record labels would NEVER ship a true "Master Tape" "out of house" but usually made a copy for the Tape house.

     Once that copy was received at the duplicating facility, a copy was made as a "Safety Copy" and another copy was used as the "Dubbing Master."  If the duplicating house used a "bin-loader" endless-loop system, an additional generation loss was usually necessary.  The final high-speed copy could EASILY be a fourth or fifth generation away from the "Mixdown "Master."

     Still, except for a somewhat elevated noise level, they sounded pretty-darned good when played on a properly aligned machine.  The REALLY good ones sounded outstanding!

     Enjoy!

Bill

I agree with Bill on this one 100%. I thought you had 4 track,,,,,meaning 4 channel prerecorded tape. This is just regular prerecorded tape. There is music on one side in stereo (tracks 1 and 3) and when that side is finished, flip the reels over and you can listen to the other side (tracks 2 and 4).

I need to have 2 track tape, as I have a 2 track machine. If I played your tape, I would have music going forward and backwards at the same time.

Wayner 

[jtsnead]

Thanks Bill,

I got it now, thats why I remember you had to take the right hand reel
once the tape played off and flip it on to the left hand side to here the
rest of the music, the labels are marked side and side two

The speed point makes sense also just like 33 to 45, I do have tapes at
both speeds

Wayner,

Listening to music forwards and backwards at the same time would cancel
out the Devils preaching and I would not be able to follow his instructions
HAhAHahaha

Just did an invetory:
13 - London
10 - Columbia
9 - Vanguard
7 - Angel
5 - Epic
2 - Nonesuch
2 - Phillips

Some great names to listen to:
Ormandy, Rubenstein, Karajan, Szell, Ashkenazy, Bernstein

Should be fun

[Listens2tubes]

What model Teac is it?

[jtsnead]

A-4000SU

[Listens2tubes]

Well I'm thinking you got a tape player not a recorder. I say this due to the lack of the lower section that houses the meters usually seen on most Teacs of this vintage. Could you post a picture of the connections also?

[Mike Nomad]

(as someone else pointed out, no meters) and no record button. You could count the number of heads. For a recording rig of that vintage, you would need 2 or 3.

(just realized)

Since it looks like your rig has two separate "play" buttons, if your rig has more than one head on it, you need to look at how many channels are on the heads. You might have (2) stereo heads instead of (1) four-track.

(after some brief research)

Your deck looks like an A-4000, which was used with a separate pre-amp of some sort, the RA-40. There is an "S" designator, which indicates stereo.