[Rob Babcock]

Sounds like it's a front runner.  I think it deserved it the for the last two movies, too, or at least a nomination.  IMO it's a good thing when a fantasy or sci fi movie gets recognized as a great film.  I remember Roger Ebert thought Dark City was the best film of the year when it came out.  But there's a bias against those types of movies at the Oscars.

It looks like incorporating CG into a movie won't automatically disquality it from contention now, either.  Titanic and Gladiator both had a lot of computer generated content and won Best Picture.

[Woodsea]

I haven't scene alot of movies this year.  But ROTK should win just because of the fact that Mr. Jackson's last 2 installments did not receive the award.  I came out of the movie in awe, not just because I love Scifi/fantasy, but because it was so well done.  It was long, but I never realized when it was playing, nor ever bored.
The goes to Lord of the Rings: Return of the King.

[nathanm]

If the first two movies didn't get any awards then there's no good reason ROTK should.  Maybe if there were a category called Best Picture\Worst Screenplay it would be a shoe-in.  How about Longest Theater Trailer For A DVD Released A Year Later?  Most Noble Intentions For A Movie Screenplay?  The 'It's The Thought That Counts' award?    Wait, I know - Best Use of Upping The Dramatic Tension With Movie Cliches!  How about the 'I Can't Fucking Believe They Used The Wilhelm Scream TWICE In One Movie' award?  Yeah! woo!

IMO it's a good thing when a fantasy or sci fi movie gets recognized as a great film.

I would agree with that, though.  In principle it would be nice to get it for that reason.

Although it's not an album, but ROTK is #1 on my 'things you want to like but can't cause they suck' list!

To paraphrase Crow T. Robot: "YOU watch the Oscars, I'm bitter..."

[Woodsea]

Nathanm, I must ask, what is a good movie in your eyes?  ROTK had everything, except maybe big stars and hollywood type writing.  I stated that Peter should win because the academy should realized that they fucked up the last 2 years.  Sort of like when they give a lifetime achievement award because politics in Hollywood gave the nod to a lesser performer earlier in the thespian's career.

[nathanm]

ROTK had everything, except maybe big stars and hollywood type writing.

It was peppered with Hollywood-type writing!  That's the whole problem...It sure as hell didn't have what it needed: Tolkien-type writing! Heh!

It is an extreme challenge for me to judge it any of these movies impartially since the books are still present in recent memory, but even so out of the 3 this was definitely not the best, not even as a standalone movie.  But considering I also don't know and most likely haven't seen what other movies it is up against it may very well deserve the award in a relative sense.

All the technical people, the artists, the crew, the makeup people-- all those folks deserve trophies out the ying yang, but the screenwriters and the editor of ROTK should probably be sent to their room with no supper.

[Rob Babcock]

I haven't actually had the chance to see RotK yet , but I loved the first two.  They're actually among my very favorite movies of recent years.  But I must confess I've never actually read any Tolkien, so they're just movies to me.  IMOHO, a movie only very rarely can do justice to a good book, so I don't expect it.

One thing I wasn't really conscious of til I saw the first two was just how much of the fantasy lexicon that pretty much all fantasy writers rely on comes from Tolkien.  From what I've gathered, his works were the first ones to really "codify" the "rules" on Orcs, Goblins, Elves, Dwarves, and all the other creatures that newer writers use now.

Still, I hope it wins (since the 3 movies are really all the same movie, carved into peices short enough to veiw in one sitting I'll trust that the last chapter is as good as the first two).  I'd like to see some other fantasy stories come to the screen (The Dragonlance Saga, for one) and this would be a good kick in the pants for Hollywood.

[bubba966]

I'd like to see some other fantasy stories come to the screen (The Dragonlance Saga, for one)

Given the huge success that the D&D movie had, I see that happening in.................never!

[Rob Babcock]

I mercifully missed that one, but I hear it was butt-puckerinly bad.  And it sure looked awful- if you can't even pick 30 seconds that look cool to put together an ad, then you know the flick is gonna suck!

But the Weiss & Hickman book series was awesome, maybe my favorite fanstasy series.  And I've read quite a bit of the genre, despite having not read it's most famous and influencial work.  S'pose I'll have to read them someday...

[Johng316]

Must sadly disagree with Nathan on this one.  That which makes a good book and that which makes a good movie are very often two radically different things.  I think the LOTR saga respected the writings while still producing an excellent movie.  That is very hard to do.

Of course, I'm no Tolk groupie like some are, so I don't regard his writings as inviolate holy scripture.  For those who do, I can certainly understand their pucker.

I was exceptionally well-entertained by these movies and believe they have set a new (extremely high) standard for both fantasy and trilogy story-telling.  All others will be compared to these and pale.

The much-anticipated Matrix trilogy blew chunks partially because it was compared to LOTR (at least sub-consciously) and fell WAY SHORT in depth of story and execution.

IMHO,

John G

[grub]

I'd say that the Lord of the Rings had several major oversights/alterations (including seriously mucking up the ending), and some annoyances (too many "fake" deaths).

That being said, I watch those DVD's more than any others in my collection.  I think that overall the trilogy was a success.
-->grub

[nathanm]

Absolutely, grub.  

I think it is a success for sure, however the thing that sticks in my craw is that it could've been SO much better with just a LITTLE more effort.  ROTK just made silly mistakes and undermined certain character's integrity on numerous occasions.  I was expecting the series to improve after the first movie hooked us in, but this didn't play out in ROTK.  These movies perpetuated TWO myths - the first is the one Tolkien wrote and the second is the myth that the filmmakers were being true to the first myth.  Sorry, but it's just not true.  They gave it a good shot, but it strayed short of the mark.

I am hoping for some serious payback in the EE.  But sadly, the worst offenses are what was added, not what was left out.

They come with pencils, they come with laptops!
Cutting, adding, swapping, breaking!
Destroyers and usurpers, curse them!

[zybar]

Nathan,

Can you give examples?

Also, wait to pass final judgement till the extended version comes out.  In the first two, the extended version filled in gaps or expanded on characters/themes that I thought the theatrical release had not gotten right.

No movie can ever live up to a book, but I thought Peter jackson did a very good, if not excellent job.

GW

[nathanm]

Nathan,  Can you give examples?

Oh boy...how much time do you have?

Also, wait to pass final judgement till the extended version comes out.  In the first two, the extended version filled in gaps or expanded on characters/themes that I thought the theatrical release had not gotten right.

Oh of course!   The EEs have been consistently better films by far.  Any time they can slow the breakneck pace it's a good thing.  But like I said, the added rubbish will still be present in lieu of the new character development scenes.

Some of the more major rubbish:

* The invented scene about Gollum convincing Frodo that Sam is against him on the stairs of Cirith Ungol - this did not happen in the book, but it is not even consistent with the movie itself - "Don't you leave him Samwise Gamgee, and I don't mean to!" he says.  Sam's commitment to Frodo was unshakable.  So Gollum sprinkles some crumbs on him and Frodo sends him away?  Nonsense.  The ONLY reason there is for this rubbish is sheer plot device - to take Sam out of the picture just so he can swoop in to save Frodo from Shelob.  THAT is Hollywood style writing!

* Shelob's lair is not the least bit dark or scary.  One can scarcely imagine the need to whip out the phial of Galadriel in such a well-lit cave!  If you read the book the horror of them being in this pitch blackness and then seeing multiple eyes staring at them in the dark is really creepy.  If the movie there's no buildup to this.  It's just "Oh look!  A big CG spider! Yay!"  

* Denethor's character was mishandled.  We are not told why he is in such despair and apparently his main fault is that he's a...sloppy eater?  What kind of rubbish was that scene anyway?  Pippin, you do a MTV music video while I pig out on bloody chicken...sound like a plan?  Sheesh!  Then we had Gandalf's character undermined by kicking the fertilizer out of Denethor and later on MURDERING the poor sap, who instead of burning up holding a Palantir he does a dive off the parapet.  Rubbish!

* The Witch King vs. Gandalf scene is SET UP but never paid back.  Gandalf doesn't even meet him when they break the gate.

* Jackson LOVES nothing more than making you think characters are dead when they're really not, but glosses over two Tolkien HANDOUTS for just such a thing:  The confrontation between the good guys and the Mouth of Sauron.  After Frodo is captured the bad guys show the good guys Frodo's mithril shirt and they despair because it seems the quest has failed.  Secondly, Tolkien gives us the biggest cliffhanger of all, ending a chapter with the reader thinking Shelob has killed Frodo.  Notice that Sam taking the Ring was also conveniently left out - a phony surprise instead of the real one.  Doh!  (personally I was looking forward to Sam's vision of an omnipotent gardener covering Middle Earth with plant life- cripes even Bakshi did this scene!) Alas, it was not to be.

* Arwen\Elrond rubbish.  Enough already!  This nonsense about her fate being tied to the Ring is just more foolish movie drama.

* Pippin's finding of the Palantir - special effects nonsense.  Besides, how the hell did it get out in the water anyway?  The sad thing is all we have to look forward to here is a scene of Saruman falling onto a spiked wheel or some bullshit.  Dammit, I wanted to see Wormtongue jump on his back and slice his neck and then he vaporizes.  I can understand why they did not do the Scouring Of The Shire for movie pacing reasons - it IS an anti-climax for sure, BUT - it goes to the heart of the story in that everyone is affected by war, including the pastoral Shire.  Also, the ommission of the Mallorn seed and dirt gift from Galadriel to Sam neglected what could've been  a great moment. *sigh*

* The climax of Gollum and the Ring's demise.  HOW in the hell could he have messed this up!?  Tolkien handed the filmmaker a movie scene on a plate!  Frodo THROWS Gollum over the edge!?  BULLSHIT!  I absolutely HATE the movie cliche of people hanging off cliff edges.  It is complete pandering to the audience and a complete corruption of the story.  Did we really need the silly scene of Gollum dwelling in MOLTEN LAVA for a few seconds?  This scene was total fabricated movie tension and completely unnecessary.  Where was the "Precious!" as he was falling?  This scene should have come off the page word for word fer cripes sake!

No movie can ever live up to a book, but I thought Peter jackson did a very good, if not excellent job.

He did, but he also cocked a bunch up.  But overall I do think it's a great job they did (especially the art design etc.), I just think it would've rocked harder had the screenplay been written by someone else.

[TheeeChosenOne]

^^
Good comments.  Agreed.

For me, the movie was well done, but the dramatic tension of the orc army storming the gates could have been more fleshed out.  It was ho-hum viewing with little emotional involvement.  The scale of battle was there, but the CG superhuman action and not well-told (i.e. rather simplistic) field of battle scenes made me roll my eyes in the same manner as the last Star Wars super-battle stadium scene.

The way the ghost army easily overan the opposing force also seemed too cut-clean contrived, which I believed they did for editing/movie length reasons.  That really was a boner of scene that did not mesh well with these epic movies.

Perhaps the DVD extended verison will ameliorate some of these concerns.  

As it stands, the last quarter/third of the movie was left "wanting" (like a hastily written term paper conclusion)..........The balance of eye candy and drama was surely well told in all 3 movies up until the poorly executed climax.

[bubba966]

Well, looks like we'll be getting 49 additional minutes in the EE cut...

http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/movieawards/oscars/2004-01-27-lotr-king-dvd_x.htm

That's a lotta extra stuff.